Thank you for posting your stories here on my blog. I'm certain we will all enjoy reading each others adventures along the canal.
Jeff Maximovich
The Johnny Apple Seed of the Ohio & Erie Canal
Certain stories are subject to ALL RIGHTS RESERVED which will be acknowledged at the beginning of the story. No part of a specific story may be produced, stored in a retrieval system or transmitted in any form or by any means without written permission of the author except by a reviewer who may quote brief passages in a review to be printed in a newspaper, magazine or journal. Any stories which fall under the terms listed, are not to be used for cinematic purposes without permission.
The Johnny Apple Seed of the Ohio & Erie Canal
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2,142 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1600 of 2142 Newer› Newest»1538- The boaters ethics code allowed them to remove crops and fencing from farms lining the towpath, does anyone wish to add to this?
1539-to 1538- Troy, as crazy as it may sound, canal boats and their crews were handed separate rights beginning with swiping fence post and railings. This wasn’t anything posted by the state or like that, but a silent rule which involved people just turning their heads and tolerating these type of things. This was short lived and I'll explain why. If a boat was in jeopardy of sinking and that piece of fence was the answer to making a fast repair the farmers understood and gladly gave assistance as well, in the beginning. This compliance by the farmers would change when their fences, barn doors etc were being stripped for firewood and additional boat construction. At first, when the canal opened, to be part of a crew or anything connected to it made you a celebrity and they were treated very well. These boats and any association with them brought prosperity to everyone whether it is a farmer or merchant. The canal brought forth the outside world into the deep and far out of the way places here at home. The canal boats were granted the three most outer rows of the crops, be it corn, wheat, barley etc. This was as well short lived because they, the boats men took great advantage offered by the generosity of our farmers. When the three rows were gone, well they proceeded to work their way inward and it wasn't to long before the farmer had to defend what was his by force and the typical canawlers wasn't to welcome to cross into his fields. By the 1840s the boats men had gone from being hailed to dislikes and brought problems where ever they held up for the evening weekend or the winter months. Basically they were known to rowdy and drunkards. Thievery was common place along the towpath and pigs and chickens were stolen regularly. There's even tales of cattle being stolen. I have a story coming out of Pickaway County which ties in well to this short piece. This particular farmer was plagued with his crops and livestock being constantly stolen and he became exhausted by waiting up trying to catch the thieves. As a result couldn’t work his farm properly because he was tired. He took notes and figured out that this stealing wasn’t every night and he began logging which boats passed through with the help from the local lock tender. Soon enough he had it pinned down to one particular freighter and took his complaint to the Sherriff and showed him the proof. The Sheriff, he and others now had knowledge when this boat was coming through and painted a pig red and left him near the towpath with a mound of apples to assure him stays put until he’s eaten them all. They took the pig as they suspected they would, as they approached the lock the farmer and Sheriff were waiting. The dark night cloaked the fact that the pig was red and all the proof the law needed to make an arrest. They boarded the craft and the boat captain refused to be arrested he went into the forward cabin grabbing a rifle and aimed and was shot to death. The news spread throughout the canal and from then on the canal boats and crew were a little concerned ands scared and felt as if they played out their hand by pillaging the local farmers and the thievery ceased.
1540 to 1538---- There were more than one county having three guard locks!!!
1541- Franklin County had at least 3 guard locks. Two of them were at the Columbus Feeder. one at the gates at the Scioto River another at Lockbourne and thirdly, another was located at lock 18 at Walnut Creek.
1542-Tuscarawas County had three guard locks maybe more. Lateral canal New Philly, Zoar at lock 10, Zoar across the river at the colony, Tuscarawas Dam and Feeder and at Lower Trenton Lock 15 and finally on the feeder to Uhrichsville. We mussant forget a guard lock had been on the canal to exit into the river picking up the lateral Canal
1543-Tuscarawas County holds the most guard locks then the others. We can't leave out the guard lock at Sugar Creek Basin within Tuscarawas County that was left out on the previous listing. My question is which side of Sugar Creek was the guard lock located? The previous posting has several guard locks listed in Franklin County, one of them namely lock 18 was located out of Franklin County but within Fairfield County.
1544 to 1536- the instrument in question was called a (Whiffle). Its purpose was designed to connect the team to the towline. This device did resemble a rifle having a trigger when pulled released the towline. The mechanism was called a towline snap.
1545-name the rules of navigation used on the Ohio and Erie Canal.
1546- We were on the tour and herd you say that anywhere where an aqueduct was present you'd bet a guard lock was present on the upside. If true, why aren't these listed? Doesn't the numbering system on the O&E coincide and use the same rule of numbering on the P & O and the Sandy by incorporating guard locks as in part of the locks lineup by number?
1547- Any lock could be a guard lock and each and everyone has the ability to stop the flow of water.
1548- A guard lock has no means to by-pass the canal by way of a tumble or spillway. A lock on the other hand by design keeps the flow and the correct level. The Clinton Guard Lock had a flaw because a by-pass channel swung by the guard lock to operate a mill thus the lock lost its ability to perform in the manner it was designed to do.
1549- The millrace at Clinton had the means to be shut off if the water has risen to a dangerous level in the Tuscarawas River.
But we all are well aware when that river rises; nothing had the ability to keep it from filling the canal. In my opinion, the guard lock in Clinton was a waste of time, as if it really helped. Clinton was a bit different in design. Usually in nearly every situation where the canal and the river merged, it was the canal crossing the river and as like Sugar Creek the guard lock was positioned on the descending side of the canal leading to a lower level, no need to place it on the ascending side. Clinton was different because the river passed through the canal prism and was dammed by two weirs on the western side of the canal. The river passed through and shot west about 200 yards then turned south and paralleled the canal.
1550-Guard locks are placed towards the descending number. A point which has overlooked, anyplace where there is a guard lock, a dam was in the vicinity.
1551- guards locks are built cheaply with earthin fill rather that blockstone chamber walls.
1552- a guard lock very seldom opened and closed its doors. Usually a guard of that type hadn't the need for a lock tender with the boats just passing through and the lock had no differential to lowering or lifting.
1553 to 1552-A guard lock very seldom closed its doors. On the O&E relatively had more than seven guard locks including those on the side cuts.
1544 to 1553- That is a true statement by saying the gates at a guard lock rarely closed, except when the river rises higher than the canal. The layout of the Ohio and Erie Canal only has a few places where flooding was common place during the spring thaw. There are many places where only inches in elevation separate the two. It’s these places where the most flooding occurs. Every one of our rivers and streams from Cleveland to Portsmouth has someplace where the canal and river can cross the towpath and merge. The Clinton Guard Lock is a guard lock all to itself. The design mimics all the others of its type. What makes it so different is its placement and why this scenario is all to itself, but another shares certain similarities. The Tuscarawas River doing a complete different arrangement passed through the canal, the standard set up is to pass the canal thru a stream at a slackwater dam area, for instance, Walnut Creek at Lockville. The other place where the river was part of the canal was in the Black Hand Gorge.
1555-Our canals were actually the offspring of rivers. I would ponder whether if any of water entering the canal from Lake Erie made it through to Portsmouth.
1556 to 1555 the waters from Lake Erie were never used to keep the Ohio and Erie Canal flowing. The canal emptied into Lake Erie and up north the water in the canal was from both the Big and Little Cuyahoga Rivers. There is no chance that any of the water from northern Ohio made its way to Portsmouth by-way-of-canal. Here's one to think about! If one would start their journey by river at Lake Erie and think that they could make a direct connection by river to Portsmouth on the Ohio River, they would soon find out the rivers don't connect and several obstacles prevented the flow from Lake Erie to the Ohio River.
1557-canalwayman, where do you get off buy claiming the rivers following to former Ohio Canal don't connect'YFI
1558 to 1557- I know that I have vocabulary issues but you're too far gone to be helped. It's (by),not (buy). Buy, or buying is when you purchase something. The canal followed the rivers over a course of better than 300 miles connecting Lake Erie with the Ohio River. The rivers had two places where crossing the land had to be done to complete a journey from Cleveland to Portsmouth by boat if you were not using the canal. The area between the Little Cuyahoga and the Tuscarawas River, and another place would be the Licking River and Walnut Creek account for the two places the streams that the canal followed were a broken connection.
1560- We weren't around to witness whether the Indians or pioneers canoed the fast water of the Cuyahoga's going north / upstrream. I doubt it very much, that, they had that much grit, much easier to pull a canoe and carry it. Knowing our river systems enough to say with great confidence, god hasn't created a man strong enough / with enough strength to paddle upstream on fast rapids. I would be more inclined to say that a common walking trail was within reach of the rivers. A canoe worked well going with the current, not against. A canoe was designed to pass over the currents / rocks etc. A flat bottom boat we all know works well in the slow stillness or on a smooth open waterway. So, this big myth and continual stories portraying the Indians paddling upstream is bullshit. The Indians here in Ohio moved overland, not by river and would have no want, or gumption to pass into or onto unfriendly grounds only to loose their life doing so by paddling out of their territories. Hunting grounds were sacred, the tribes boundaries were well staked, often with bodies of those who chanced crossing them. The Indians killed indiscriminately towards other tribes as well as the white man.
1561-If you was heading up-stream on the Cuyahoga River you would be going to the south.
1562- Hey Jeff we were out on SR.93 near Charm and Fresno and parallel to the hi-way there are miles of canals which lead back to the Muskingum. Which system could this be?
1563- I'm at a loss to give a suitable explanation. A friend of mine who just passed on told me about them years ago. He said they were part of a inner state navigational system. I have researched this without coming to a resolution on this matter. What makes more since to me is flood control. These channels are empty, although I have visited the region around Beach City where a water control project has been constructed with channels leading away for miles and were full. They do lead to the Muskingum in a roundabout way and also parallel route 93 next to a set of tracks. As far as my knowledge goes, I can't place any canal system throughout that particular region.
1564 where have you been
1565-Part 1 Indian removal-I was asked to give a story about what methods which were used to move the Indians off the rivers in making room for the canals.
During the early days when the Ohio and Erie Canal was in its planning stages, one of the biggest obstacles wasn’t the hilly terrain, brush or lack of water. The barrier which sat in its path was the Indian tribes who had settled along our rivers for thousands of years before the conception of a connection from Lake Erie to the Ohio River was even a thought. New York state just finished a campaign where they nearly extinguished the Indian tribes living along the internal arteries (rivers) which where the life-giving blood the canal system needed to operate. The Indians who survived, were moved onto the numerous reservations situated within New York. Many of the tribes, to avoid imprisonment and annihilation, moved into Pennsylvania and Ohio only to once again meet the same problems with the canals being built there as well. Ohio has little to boast of or offer in terms of reservations for the Indians who were moved off and away from their homes. The Wyandot Indians were the last tribe to move from Ohio lands in 1843. Theses people were marched to reservations west of the Mississippi to Missouri and Kansas and made this trek during the hard winter of 1843 and into the spring of 1844. Not only were they stripped of everything, they died along the way of starvation and the cold. The trail was plotted and those who strayed were shot and killed. The Indians at first refused to move off the rivers and go inland to allow easement for the canal system. This situation became hostile when the land agents sent in thugs to disrupt life for the Indians and began killing them. This was nothing new - the Indians had been fighting to keep their land for decades. In order to move the tribes off the rivers, an example had to be set in motion for all the tribes to see.
1565 Part 2- Indian Removal- These actions would be so atrocious that the Indians would pick up and move to avoid a repeat in their villages. Villages were burned out, the men, women and children were hacked up and left to rot in the sun. This very thing played out near Bolivar where a large settlement lived peacefully along the Muskingum in 1822, many years after the Ghadenhutten massacre of 1774. The tribe which was wiped out were Christian Indians who were a sect of the Moravian Church under the Delaware Nation. This massacre near Bolivar took place at the great bend of the river just above Bolivar, the former settlement of the missionary settled in by Reverand Post. This settlement was also the place where the first white child was recorded born within Ohio in 1763. Most of the Indians along the Muskingum and Tuscarawas Rivers, were Christian tribes converted by David Ziesburger who was well-known for his ministries along these rivers. Killing Indians wasn’t too big of a deal for many who enjoyed doing it. The hatred for them had long and deep roots and finding soldiers and settlers alike to carry out mass killings of the Indians came rather easy. So, massive killings to make room for the canal systems were all in a day’s work for those hired to remove them.
1566 -Hey Canalwayman,, by the time the canal's were being drawn up the indian rebutals were long finished. good story in 1565 but no binding glue.
1567- Indians reprisals and violence was active during the canal construction within the boundaries of Ohio. As follows: Articles of agreement and convention, made and concluded at Wapaghkonnetta, in the county of Allen and State of Ohio on the 8th day of August in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and thirty-one, by and between James B. Gardiner specially appointed commissioner on the part of the United States and John McElvain, Indian Agent for the Wyandots, Senecas and Shawnees residing in the State of Ohio, on the one part, and the undersigned, principal Chiefs, Headmen and Warriors of the tribe of Shawnee Indians residing at Wapaghkonnetta and Hog Creek, within the territorial limits of the organized county of Allen, in the State of Ohio.
Whereas the President of the United States under the authority of the Act of Congress, approved May 28, 1830, has appointed a special commissioner to confer with the different Indian tribes residing within the constitutional limits of the State of Ohio, and to offer for their acceptance the provisions of the before recited act:—And whereas the tribe or band of Shawnee Indians residing at Wapaghkonnetta and on Hog Creek in the said State, have expressed their perfect assent to the conditions of the said act, and their willingness and anxiety to remove west of the Mississippi river, in order to obtain a more permanent and advantageous home for themselves and their posterity. Therefore, in order to carry into effect the aforesaid objects, the following articles of Convention have been agreed upon by the aforesaid contracting parties, which, when ratified by the President of the United States, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate thereof, shall be mutually binding upon the United States and the said Shawnee Indians.
1568-Indian attacks were probably few on our canalways if any took place at. Do to the time period in which the canals were being built and became active here in Ohio coupled with the fact that angry Indians were still about, the probability exist.
1569- Hey canalwayman---name the natural resource which was commonly used for currency up and down all of our canalways.
1570-- That question has been raised and answered before here on this site. Coal was as good as money, not so much in the summer but become quite lucrative as the season wore into late fall and the pre winter season. Coal would be the reason some boats kept going until the canal would be impassible late in the year. Coal had real value and could be traded for just about anything which included groceries. The standard market had stockpiles of coal on hand as well as stacked lumber used in fireplaces and stoves. Coal burned much hotter and longer than cut timber and in the later part of the 19th century coal was the predominant fuel used to heat homes. Coal was the fuel of choice used in industry and those who depended on the resource generally stockpiled it. To some it up, coal was used often in place of money using the barter system. A good point to rise, it was worth something along the canal, it wouldn’t work to well to go into a hotel or restaurant and hand them a bucket of coal for a nights rest or a dinner.
July 11, 2010 6:57 PM
1571-Give another name for the level between locks. This was the proper name which was given to the levels until the Ohio and Erie Canal come about which changed many things including canal vocabulary.
1572- "Plane" was the common term used to describe what we know as a level.
1573- Can anyone give an example of a nosebag in use?
1574 -This appendage is borrowed from the good book "The Tales of a Boatman"
Nosebag as follows:That would be about 5 o'clock in the morning. And then we were ready to go by 7. And then we would take the feed with us and the nosebag then put them on. My father- in- law never told me when I first drove the mules,he said to me at 12 o'clock. Russ go down and put the nosebag on the mules. So I went down and the first thing I knowed I started to take the bridal off, this here nasty mule, she hauled off and and she knocked me one with her head and I went kerplunk. I said to myself, I'll fix you. I picked up a whiffletree and then hit her on the end of her nose. If you ever seen me drop a mule. well I dropped this one.
1575-Hey Jeff how-about a brown -nose story you have your nose six feet up the CSOs ass
1576-to- 1575 No one is up any ones rear end. I certainly do not kiss up and I haven't yet found them too. Why don't you specify and be more explicit and give a for instance, for instance.
Today was a good day to explore the Stillwater Creek area near the Trenton Feeder. My objective was to find a lift lock other than the one I discovered along the Trenton feeder, but inland between the Tuscarawas and Stillwater Creek. I strongly feel as if a lift lock sits buried on an island between the two streams. Today was very revealing; every time I go out there I find more things that just add to the confusion explaining why several canals were cut in that area. The water was low today and 2 feet of logs which made up the dam were sticking out at the Trenton dam sight. Up river at Mill St. it's a clear day to see the real Hilton Dam they way it was left after it was rebuilt by the Daily Bros in 1904 to 08. I was told that that is a pipeline crossing the river, I won’t go with that because the river swings around and there is no pipe on the other side of the bend in the river where it heads south. I have put out feelers for information pertaining to that area and its history. It paid off and I was met by an older gentleman today who was familiar with the area. His great grandfather worked the coal banks at the coal mines up in the hills above the town of Tuscarawas. We took the old road which runs parallel to SR.416 but higher up in the hills overlooking the canal area into Port Washington. Those hills are dotted with old mine shafts and I had come to the conclusion that there were no mines which operated at the banks of the canal. The coal was transported as far as a mile to be loaded. We did manage to find some block structures which dated into the canal era, probably or possibly abutments of a coal chute. This fellow was too old to get around, but he is a link to the canals past. His day consisted of good canal stories which were passed down through family stories. We passed through the gates at the Trenton Dam and followed the road and after quite a distance passed another gate and we stopped there. To my surprise it was another canal which cut across the peninsula which led from the Tuscarawas from one side back into the river on the other side. He said a dam sat right there pointing into the river which was wide and slow and as kids they played on it and went into great detail. I wandered out and could visualize it where it spanned the easy rapids. He showed me where a mill house use to sit that ground wheat and corn. What I found so strange is that the channel is the same as a canal prism dimensions. Possibly boats loaded there. I decided not to ford the river today to find my mystery lock; I’ll leave that for another day. All-n-all it was a great outing.
Part 1-1576-to- 1575 No one is up any ones rear end. I certainly do not kiss up and I haven't yet found them too. Why don't you specify and be more explicit and give a for instance, for instance.
Today was a good day to explore the Stillwater Creek area near the Trenton Feeder. My objective was to find a lift lock other than the one I discovered along the Trenton feeder, but inland between the Tuscarawas and Stillwater Creek. I strongly feel as if a lift lock sits buried on an island between the two streams. Today was very revealing; every time I go out there I find more things that just add to the confusion explaining why several canals were cut in that area. The water was low today and 2 feet of logs which made up the dam were sticking out at the Trenton dam sight. Up river at Mill St. it's a clear day to see the real Hilton Dam they way it was left after it was rebuilt by the Daily Bros in 1904 to 08. I was told that that is a pipeline crossing the river, I won’t go with that because the river swings around and there is no pipe on the other side of the bend in the river where it heads south. I have put out feelers for information pertaining to that area and its history. It paid off and I was met by an older gentleman today who was familiar with the area. His great grandfather worked the coal banks at the coal mines up in the hills above the town of Tuscarawas.
Part 2-We took the old road which runs parallel to SR.416 but higher up in the hills overlooking the canal area into Port Washington. Those hills are dotted with old mine shafts and I had come to the conclusion that there were no mines which operated at the banks of the canal. The coal was transported as far as a mile to be loaded. We did manage to find some block structures which dated into the canal era, probably or possibly abutments of a coal chute. This fellow was too old to get around, but he is a link to the canals past. His day consisted of good canal stories which were passed down through family stories. We passed through the gates at the Trenton Dam and followed the road and after quite a distance passed another gate and we stopped there. To my surprise it was another canal which cut across the peninsula which led from the Tuscarawas from one side back into the river on the other side. He said a dam sat right there pointing into the river which was wide and slow and as kids they played on it and went into great detail. I wandered out and could visualize it where it spanned the easy rapids. He showed me where a mill house use to sit that ground wheat and corn. What I found so strange is that the channel is the same as a canal prism dimensions. Possibly boats loaded there. I decided not to ford the river today to find my mystery lock; I’ll leave that for another day. All-n-all it was a great outing.
1577-1577- On my outing today I once again ran into people living out from the mainstream of society, in both cases out on an island in the middle of the Tuscarawas River. This one hermit as we'll call him had a tent positioned at this small islands highest point that was a good ten feet above the water. The spring rains would easily raise the river high enough to swallow up his temporary home, but for now he's probably safe. A bridge leading out was made from limbs and vines that were collected from the area and looked rather well built. He heard us and appeared as if he was standing guard. After a friendly gesture of the hand and a slight wave he responded with the same and headed off across the bridge into the woods. Now I know that some of you never have seen these things as I have, but never the less they do exist. Today also revealed another individual living on the Tuscarawas River right in plain sight of I-77 near where SR.250 intersects with 77 North. Just below where the Baker Dam sits a makeshift homestead is set up today on an island that is reachable by crossing a fallen tree. This is an opportunity to go and see for yourself that some of our society is less fortunate and have no choice except to go back and live off the land. For those who doubt these exist or happen things perhaps you should drive on down and have a look near New Philly. The other sighting is 900 yards down river from the Trenton Dam.
1578-There are some old post cards showing a millhouse on the Tuscarawas River that doesn't match up with the millhouse at Zoar and Clinton. Was a mill located in Canal Dover on the Tusc? Didn't you find a mill on the Muskingum last year?
1579--I have found a couple of former placements where mills use to sit along the Tuscarawas River (Formerly the Muskingum). There is a real interesting area along Hiway 36 above Unusual Junction in Coshocton County. A half a mile west of Unusual Junction coming east on 36 there is a sort of a pull off where the county has been filling in the hillside. Their waste is actually falling into the old canal bed of the Ohio and Erie. This marks the spot where a rather extensive dam once spanned the river and until its covered by fill, you can make things out and find some of the structure still there. The best mill you can find anywhere is the Welkers Mill buried along the Sandy and Beaver Canal, now that's worth seeing!!
1580
To 1575
I can personally assure you that Canalwayman didn't kiss any CSO members butt. I can also assure you that he'd likely kick yours if you had the balls to say that to his face.
To 1579- That said, I was curious as to whether you ever made it back to the Dresden sidecut area in order to re-investigate any signs of a guard lock in its vicinity.-W.A.Seed
1581 - Where exactly is Welker's Mill?
1582 to 1581-Hey Canaldog it’s been a while. Welker’s Mill operated on the Sandy and Beaver Canal System. The foundations are still completely intact and easy to find. To find this great site, you'll have to go into Tuscarawas County about 10 miles south of Canton just beyond an area called Crossroads near Magnolia. Take I-77 south and get off at the Timken Place Rt. 800 exit and go south about 8 miles and turn right on Crossroads, take it into Sandyville. You'll cross some RR tracks. At that point, turn left, then immediately left on Canal St. Follow it around the curve and you'll see a marker that commemorates the former town center of where Sandyville use to sit. Use that marker as reference, stand next to it facing the river bridge down the hill. Turn your body to the left about thirty degrees and mark a place off in the distance and walk to it. Its probably a corn field, if so follow the road and walk the edge of the field, you’ll cut in to the right and soon enough you'll be at the former site of Welker’s Mill, tell me what you think.
1583 to 1580-Whats up W.A.Seed? I have been down there about three times since we last corresponded. The more that I dig in, the more confusing it becomes. I scoured the libraries throughout the region hunting down anything that could shed some light on the subject. I was talking with some of the local Dresden historians who strongly feel as I do; a lock was at the juncture at the side cut numbered 20. Max Garr has information that has it listed as well at 20. The only conclusion that I've come up with is that the canal bed is substantially lower within what there is left to examine at the side cut closer to the Wakatomika and 100 yards south of Raiders Road. I bought some pretty sophisticated GPS equipment that Cleary puts the side cut about 6 feet lower that the Ohio and Erie Canal. I'm even taking into consideration that the Ohio and Erie has a filled in prism and subtracted 5 feet. Even doing that and doing some other calculations, I feel as if the side cut was lower, needing a device to lower the canal boats. There is yet today left a part of a basin that’s filled with water on the western corner of Bottoms and Raiders Rd. The water is about 8 feet deep according to my own measuring; we did have a heavy rain that could throw it off making it deeper. I will always be convinced that a lock sat there and further more feel there was a pretty substantial turn around area there during the canal's hey-day.
1584- Hey Mr.Canalwayman we went and found Welkers Mill as easily as you laid it out in your directions. That place is wild! Did the canal boats tie up there? We couldn't find the canal, were the waters of the Sandy Creek the canal?
1585---1584 The Sandy & Beaver Canal in part used Sandy Creek as a canal. By doing so, that greatly cut down the cost during its construction. Unfortunately for us, the onlooker, time has consumed many it structures and slackwater dams. Money, as always a factor then, thus in itself dictated the quality and performance of that waterway. Hastily some of the dams and a couple locks were built cheaply from local timber mainly pine. Some of our states best built locks can be located on this system as in the same breath the worst construction sites too. The (Sandy) never really got into real business. Its construction placed new towns over its short distance, none of which that really amounted to anything special. Looking back, its construction dollars and efforts all went up in smoke. Some say, some, don’t agree, that a boat lies within the imprisonment of the Dungannon Tunnels. This same story applies to the Pennsylvania and Ohio Canal and countless other systems here in Ohio. Welker’s Mill was established far ahead of the arrival of the Sandy and Beaver Canal, but eventually moved its location onto it at Sandyville.
This site has great educational value!!!
1586 I have often heard the story about a canal boat lodged inside one of the two tunnels at Dungannon. Local folklore has several canal boats imprisoned within the small mountain. As the story goes, during a cave-in, a boat ran aground. This particular boat is without a name, maybe it wasn't important. Being stuck, or canal terms would describe it as being mudlarked forcing those on-board swim or waded out taking their valuables.
This is another version which was emailed over to me a couple of years ago. This version sparked my interest to get into the tunnels. I made my way there and combed the hills for openings and finally got up enough gumption to enter one of them. In doing so, I was frightened by the thoughts of things living within an area where they have been trapped for 160years. I would have hated to have taken on a snake bite from a poisonous water snake. The risk outweighed the reward.
As the story goes:
Hello Mr.Maximovich, I live just up the road from Dungannon, Ohio and was pointed in the direction of this website recently after a member of the canal association told me of your journey into the big tunnel. I’m 74 years old; my family lived here from about 1845 when my great grandfather arrived from Switzerland to build furniture. Stories about the canal have often fascinated and thrilled me. Fifty years ago, the openings were all there on top, they were airshafts which looked more like fire pits. I was out there twenty years ago hunting and remember seeing one still up there. After the Sandy & Beaver Canal folded there was several boats scattered along the Canalway as the story went. These boats became homes for hermits and bums and eyesores. Somehow, those in charge in the county managed to fill the canal and floated these boats into the tunnels and dynamited the openings, to my knowledge about ten boats are in there.
Keep up the good work, this is good reading. A word of caution, it would be hazardous to wade those waters inside. This was my short pieces on this matter, take my advice and wait until the water has been drained, and then go forth.
1587-There are no airshafts or evidence of any on the western tunnel, nothin but corn!
Fantastic blog, I hadn't noticed johnnyappleseedscanalstories.blogspot.com earlier during my searches!
Carry on the good work!
1589
Regarding 1587- I find it hard to believe after being posted a month ago, that no one questioned the logic & impossibility of the "those in charge" managing to float ten or so boats into the big tunnel long after the Sandy & Beaver held water on the summit. Why would anyone bother given the time and expense required? Logically they would strip the derelict boats of usable lumber & burn what was left.
I can't disagree with the advice that neither of those sealed up tunnels contain anything worth investigating by anyone less than a professional archeologist with a kevlar diving suit.---W.A.Seed
Thank you, that was extremely valuable and interesting...I will be back again to read more on this topic.
1591 to 1589
I wish to start by saying that I have been out for several months now doing canal research for my next book. In doing so, I will be doing some drastic changes to my own information. On another subject, being Dungannon, I have scoured the hills on the western tunnel at Dungannon and did manage to locate an air shaft after returning there too further my work. The eastern tunnel has remnants showing where the shafts were on top. I did go into the western tunnel and was spooked by the thoughts of what could be lurking in the stagnant waters inside the mountain. Kevlar is a smart thing to do if someone is crazy enough to proceed inside. Inside is accessible for the brave at heart, or the ignorant, I could fall into that classification easily, and have before. On day last year or the year before, I was determined to go into the tunnel as far as I could, but got a little uncomfortable thinking of things slithering around. Do I think that there are boats inside? The story goes that one of the boats sits lodged inside mudlarked. Ten boats may be quite a high number. The effort involved to tow them inside would be far too much for the times to handle, being 1850 give or take. I agree with Mr. Seed, the boats would have been reduced to nothing and stripped of everything before those actions would have ever happened. In the days following the end of the Sandy and Beaver Canal, our country fell onto hard times with the coming of the Civil War. The war left many hungry and cold, and we have cold winters. So the chance of usable lumber just sitting around on half sunken canal boats and not being harvested is absurd, when in need. But we do have a dilemma here, where did all of these boats end up? My thoughts are this, many just rotted away in the canal and for years they were used as homes where they met their final resting place. For the biggest part, I feel that Summit and Nesmith Lake hold many in Summit County. We know that the Lower Basin at Akron was a holding tank for scores of boats, numbering fifty or more that mysteriously caught fire and burned. The basins at Roscoe Village could be the final place of many, many boats, one being Capt, Pearl Nye’s. I was told that Munroe basin has a good dozen boats resting on its bottom, who knows?
Thanks for sharing the link, but unfortunately it seems to be offline... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please reply to my post if you do!
I would appreciate if a staff member here at johnnyappleseedscanalstories.blogspot.com could post it.
Thanks,
Peter
1592---The Sandy & Beaver had its disappointments. This canal comes in an era of transition involving our nation and stately methods concerning transportation changes. Talk was looming about the great railroads soon to be laid here in Ohio. All the attention here at home was being re-directed from our Canalway and the funds became scarce for future interior improvements leading into the latter part of the 1850s. The disappointments are outlined by saying the canal was built on a tight budget and its lenders mostly privateers’ who ended up swallowing a mountain of unforeseen cost to complete the canal on a timely fashion. The state offered little on the sandy & Beaver, because with so much money pouring into the railways. Dungannon nearly stopped the entire project. At one point in time, the canal was only going to reach Lisbon to avoid the burden of the Dungannon Tunnels. Dungannon was a necessary evil that had to be dealt with to make a completion; the tunnels had to be punched through. On the seventy three miles of the Sandy & Beaver, it passed through several counties, but none as tough to deal with as Columbiana County with terrain difficulties which mimicked West Virginia with high mountains and rolling hills. Mostly, the Sandy Canal System had few boats by comparison with the Ohio Canal. Most of the traffic stayed close to the western end servicing Magnolia, Sandyville, Wanesburg, and Minerva and reached out east towards Lisbon in doing so passing Oneida and other small hamlets. The biggest down fall was the tunnels and the multiple use of the Big Sandy Creek seconding as a canal to cut down the expense. Series of cheaply built wooden dams gave way abundantly. I feel as if many boats lie below Buckeye Lake that were taken out and sunk there. My father, a canal historian who loved the Sandy had talked of canal boats being washed up inland as far as a quarter mile during the big flood of 1913. Are you aware that millhouse foundations are still at Malvern with an enormous amount of stone work which I’m at a loss to explain? Help!
1593
Hey Canalwayman, What will be the subject of your next book?
Excello
1594 to 1593
The next book is my take on the history surrounding the Ohio and Erie Canal. It will be culminated with facts and personal experiences and plenty of hearsay stories of the life and times of some whom which have something to say. I’m so bogged down with so much information, I’m lost, where do I begin? I ask myself. I’ll tell you what a great book would be, if someone could find out where all the boats ended up, I guess I mean their final resting place. That would be something. I can actually place about twenty boats. That number falls way short of the boats which plied the canal system.
1595-While doing your adventures, have you ever stumbled across anything or parts. pots, pans etc with true meaning?
1596 to 1595
I have run across some interesting things over the last course of five years. There’s a lot to see, but sometimes entails a good amount of walking. I find this particular site I’m about to reveal to be very interesting and it’s surely canal related over in Stark County. A stove, this lightly colored brick with chimney stove is built right up to the canal bed just about a ½ mile south of the boat house on the opposite bank. Whether it was a courtesy gesture for the canal boats who passed by, or be-it private, it needs further investigation. The interesting part is that it can only be loaded and worked from the canal side; the oven faces the waters edge. I also found a rudder resting against a feeder dam in the Little Cuyahoga River below Lock 21. This rudder was in bad condition, but was distinctly a canal boat rudder. I found an old 2 burner stove in southern Ohio half sunken in the canal bed. I tried to save it but it crumbled in my hands. I found an old pair of boots standing up that had trees growing from them, there was nothing made of rubber on them, all leather, and the buckles were copper which was faded green and weathered. I found various pieces of wooden planks, millions of old cans and a couple of pots. To this day, I have an old oil lamp in my home and a lantern which probably dates to the old canal days.
On another issue concerning lost canal boats: In Akron sits the B.F.Goodrich company and the Spaghetti Warehouse sits there as well, YWCA and etc. That place was the exact spot where the Lower Basin once sat. The lower basin originally was one the approaching level of the P.O. Canal and tied into the Ohio and Erie just below Lock 1 That area through time became the canal boat grave yard of Akron. Scores of boats filled the basin in the later years when the canal was barely operational from about the 1870s more and more boats made their last voyage into the basin and remained forever. A mysterious fire burned the boats and no sooner than it was put out, B.F.Goodrich bought the land and built there. From what I have gathered, they just filled it in and many boats are still buried there. So if this is ever discovered that boats are there, I said it first.
1597-Hey Jeff, good to see your back on this. Where the heck have you been? I wish to point out something of importance about the lift lock on the Trenton Feeder. Its not that it really matters who discovered that great site because we the general public reap the rewards put forth by you guys who look for these things. There's another gentleman saying he found it years ago and you followed his work??? Somehow, I don’t believe him. What boggles the mind is that failed to mention it until recently!!!. I can't swallow that, only, because I had asked him in the mid 1970s if a lock has been found on or around the feeder channel. His reply came in the form that several years ago he sat out looking and come up empty handed, saying further more that there is nothing relevant to support that one has ever been there. He went on to say all of the discoveries have been found concerning the Ohio and Erie Canal, all done by our states best and well known researchers him being one. At the time, he was involved in writing a book about the Walhonding Canal where he did make discoveries and he let the world know, but ironically kept it a secret about a lift lock on the Trenton feeder. Now he's jumping your work!
1598 to 1597 –He’s done a lot on the canal systems here in Ohio, but his accuracy on several matters is highly questionable. Without hesitation I stringently claim that he’s an opportunist by taking credit for others work and is known for doing just that. We talked about this matter before and others and he was clueless in many places. He had absolutely no clue that - that lifts lock was out on the Trenton Feeder. I have recently found some other great sites back in there as well. If I was to tell him that, or even make it up as fiction, that I found something, he would say, Oh! I found that in 1970 to cover his ass. Anyone could have gone out there and found these things; it just takes the time and gumption too carry it out. Over the course of the last few years, we have some great new minds emerge who really know this canal system and I respect them all. Back to Mr. No-it-all, he’s done it all, n-been there always before anyone else!
Thanks for sharing this link, but unfortunately it seems to be down... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please answer to my post if you do!
I would appreciate if a staff member here at johnnyappleseedscanalstories.blogspot.com could post it.
Thanks,
Oliver
Oliver, I'll get someone on it asap
1599-We know who it is that you're making reference to in posting 1598. He is truly full of himself. These days, he's more involved in the technical aspects that are (highly questionable) than going out on foot. You are the only person who has walked the canal's full distance since the old days when it was operational. For some else to step up and make the claim and gain fortune, they, couldn't get around sharing the spotlight with you. There isn't a single soul anywhere alive who knew of the lift lock out on the Trenton Feeder until you brought it into light. Nice work!! I've been a member of the CSO 20 years now, and I know it wasn't discovered until after you placed it on your web-page.
1600- I'm interested in knowing why the hardships of digging through those hills at Dungannon were endured. What's the story behind by which a decision was finalized to go forth by taking the Dungannon route, in doing so caused delays and difficulties was there any other options?
1601 to 1600-The whole idea with the Dungannon Tunnels were to knock about 16 or so miles of the overall length of the S & B Canal. To follow the Eastern Division of Sandy Creek would have accumulated more miles. The tunnels became reality at the hands of an engineer named Edward, Gill who one of the superintendents who overseen its construction. The expenses were mounting, stemming from that, the stockholders were sold on the idea that such a huge distance could be cut off just by digging through two small hills, barely an obstacle by Gills thinking. Soon the realism of the whole ordeal swept in when they had to cut through solid rock at only inches per-day. The stockholders were loosing faith in his abilities and he was replaced before his contract expired. He did manage to punch the big tunnel through during his time as supervisor. His misguided efforts and mismanagement of funds nearly stopped the canal entirely.
September 26, 2010 6:12 PM
1602 We found the concrete aqueduct near PPG. Somehow I just can believe that to be the Barberton Aqueduct. Following the stream away from lock 1 Wolf Creek, it takes us to Hudson Run and no tangible signs of anything. Are we missing something?
1603 to 1602-That's not really the Barberton Aqueduct if its the concrete structure that you found dated late 1800s. Although it was some type of a span which crossed over Wolf Creek, not Hudson Run. Hudson Run spills into Wolf Creek after passing through Columbia Lake at PPG where its dammed up. The spillway at Lock 1 is just there to keep the canal moving and from getting stagnant. Although one would think that the water followed the original course of the canal bed to where it meets Wolf Creek. In part it does, but the canal bed bent towards the river heading southeast. Now that's probably hard to grasp because one would think the water would follow the canal prism all the way to the creek, but not so. The north side of Wolf Creek has been filled up all of the way to the lock and the chamber is non-existent. One of our well known researchers swears that the lock chamber is still there, I don't think so. I have probed the ground in increments of 6 inches and never found solid stone below. Back to the location of the Barberton Aqueduct, the first of them crossed Wolf Creek. If I was looking for anything left of the original span, I would go about it by crossing the railroad bridge over Wolf Creek then cut in along the creek where you'll find a walking path that leads to the old canal bed. When you reach it, you'll be surprised how great of shape the canal bed is in. Once you get into the canal bed, walk it north and you'll run into a heaping pile where a huge mound was piled to keep Wolf Creek out of the prism. Walk down to the mound and get over it and look upstream and about 150 feet up stream you'll see where the spillway from Lock 1 enters Wolf Creek. While there, look into the water below your feet, low and behold, a pylon still anchored in the river bed. Downstream you'll find other beams and parts and plenty of rip rap in the area. The aqueduct failed and the stream was blocked off and its course was changed and paralleled the tracks then Wolf Creek passed below the later of the two aqueducts that was 900 yards south of Snyder St. The flood of 1913 reopened the original course that was filled in when the second aqueduct was completed in the late 1800s. When the earthen dam was breached during the flood, the second course that led to the newer of the two aqueduct was no longer filled by Wolf Creek because the raging waters cut a direct course re-opening a route to the Tuscarawas River.
1604-1603 There is nothing to support a course change at Wolf Creek, or the removal of the Barberton Aqueduct, or another aqueduct built further down the canal?
1605 to 1604-The course change was complete in 1898 when Wolf Creek had a course change near its mouth at the Tuscarawas River. The canal hadn't a change and was still following the same route exiting Barberton. What changed is the wooden aqueduct that spanned Wolf Creek had already collapsed and the nearly 75 year old wooden framed hulk was falling apart and rotting. The aqueducts low design placed it near the water, that caused plenty of failure when the water level elevated after a storm. The rising water pushed hard against the structure and moved it causing it to be rebuilt through the years. Still there today if one would look around could find where concrete was poured at the site of the aqueduct to prevent erosion. The same similar situation played out in or about 1827 when the Furnace Run span failed by rushing water, it was rebuilt the second time around from steel. Who knows how many times it failed even after. When the stream changed its course the site of the former aqueduct was filled in and a canal bed was cut through an earthen dam that blocked out Wolf Creek. The water then flowed through the lower part of the concrete aqueduct that's buried back in the PPG swamps today. There's plenty to support my theories, they're called maps and digging in doing my work.
1606-If you're so observant Jeff, why does the drain exiting Wolf Creek just doesn't fall onto the ground rather then go an additional 100 feet, excuse me the length of a lock chamber before it exits the drain tube? I would love to see someone dig that area up and throw mud in your face when an intact blockstone lock chamber exposes itself. How close was the aqueduct in reference to lock 1? I know the exact distance!!
1607 to 1606-Man I thought that I had bad grammar. Man, you make me look good. That spillway does run the length of a lock chamber, I do agree. There are no block stones left there which made up the lock chamber, except a lower case or two maybe. On top of them rows, the chamber was rebuilt using concrete, the same as most of the northern Ohio locks in the early 20th century. There's probably no doubt whatsoever that the original floor in part remains yet and a spillway was easily placed there and filled around. Those block stones are still around if you wish to see them now as a wall. This wall sits behind the Magic City Shopping Center on Wooster Rd. facing the tracks just north of Wolf Creek.
1608- The Barberton Aqueduct sat at Wolf Creek you Jack Ass, who cares how many feet away it was from lock 1?
1609 that spill tube is three times the length of a lock chamber. Its so long it drops over Snyder Ave.
1610- That spillway does extend far outside of the original confines of the lock chamber. I went down to have a better look see yesterday, and in reference to the lock position and angle. its running dead through the center all the way. I gave a rough count on the distance, it exceeds three hundred feet. For those who are interested in a good walkabout exploring things, a mill sat along the Tuscarawas River near Barberton. In the immediate area where the aqueduct sat and downstream are some pieces of lumber that made up the structure. I found this to be the case at Circleville where the big aqueduct fell after it was ignited in 1915. Some of those beams weigh as much as an estimated guess, 10,000 pounds. The Tuscarawas Aqueduct has pieces and parts scattered down river also. Where the spillway tube dumps at Snyder ave in Barberton it has a huge amount of rip-rap they removed along the creek and placed it there.
1611-I'm sorta confused by conflicting information. Where was the Union Army Power Works located in Cleveland. I'm looking at anothers publication which leads me to believe you have it listed incorrectly. Its near lock 5 in Cuyahoga County not as u claim near lock 42.
1613- In-all the years involved in researching the Ohio and Erie Canal, have I ever took notice of a second Austin Powder Co. in AKRON OF ALL PLACES? "No" because it wasn't there!! Do you make this stuff up??
1614- James, just because you don't obtain the information that shows Austin Powder works situated off the canal in Akron, doesn't means its a hoax or make-believe. There's enough people who do know that's totally correct. These individuals would lay it on me real thick, if I was to be incorrect. These are those who are highly educated on Akron and its early days and its surroundings. You obviously don't qualify!
To 1611,12, and 13
Austin Powder Works was located in between Locks 41 & 42 in Cuyahoga County. Lock 41 was also known as 5-mile lock. That may explain 1611s confusion.
Prior to building the powder plant in Cuyahoga County, Austin Powders original plant was located along Akrons cascade locks. Anyway, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject.--W.A.Seed
canalwayman Austin Powder Works said...
1612 to 1611-"Hey dummy", You need to get your information right. Is this just a joke, or are you plain stupid? I'm not even going to get into the misleading information listed in one other's book, we're done with all that. We have six locks with the number 5 associated with them, they are north to south, Stone Mills lock #5 that was in Akron Summit County. Moving along into Stark County, Massillon, actually had two locks that carried that number if we include Old lock 5a at Cemetery Run. Our next lock 5 sits in Licking County on the approach to Hebron in a small hamlet once called Upper Lockport. Crossing into Fairfield County, we have our last lock namely lock 5 called Dry Dock approaching Baltimore, Ohio. So knowing all this good information, would you say that your information needs tuned a bit and you sorta are a jerk. I can't put my hands on the exact spot where "Austin Powder Works", not what you called it, where it actually sat somewhere between locks 42 and 43 in Cuyahoga, County bordering the canal and river. One more thing, Austin Powder Works also had an Akron location near lock 16 to its west. If you go and look by way of Hickory St. you can still find a winding road buried there and using old Akron maps, it can be pinpointed.
1615 To 1613. I don't understand the hostility. Couldn't you politely say that you never heard that before and ask for the source of info so you could check it out for yourself? Just visit Austin Powder Works website and it will tell you that the originall plant was founded in Akron in 1833 and closed down in 1871.
The area Jeff is talking about is fascinating. A neighborhood was built in that area just after the great flood in 1913 and was called Putnum Street. The homes were razed in 2000 when the towpath was put through. On the northeast side of Hickory, right next to the railroad tracks, there are still two pillars at the beginning of the street. The overgrown brick road winds down the hill towards the canal. The Ramnytz family that owned the Mustill house before it was given to Cascade Locks Park, lived on Putnum St. in the 1950s.
1617-Mr.Canalwayman be careful who you call a dummy! 5+1=6. In your posting above,,, you have six locks mentioned and five accounted for. Where is the sixth one
1618- Massillon may have had three locks. I guess it would be who you talked to because the information is very vague when it comes down to whether or not a lock sat a couple of miles down the canal at the south fork of Cemetery Run. The block stones laying there and spread out in the middle of the river leans towards a third lock. I don't think that they operated at the same time. I was led to believe that lock was pulled in 1848 or about. When the lock was removed another lock was built in the area of the Paper mill in town.
1619- Your book clearly says that you gave up the Harleys and the race cars. What happened did you relapse? you're all over the internet with your bike & car stuff, for a guy who had given something up you seem to be knee deep in it. See for yourself that Jeff is full of crap go too----www.industrialengineandmachine.com
Thanks for sharing the link, but unfortunately it seems to be offline... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please reply to my post if you do!
I would appreciate if a staff member here at johnnyappleseedscanalstories.blogspot.com could post it.
Thanks,
Jack
1620-to-1619
I wouldn't call it a relapse. Although, I do like to keep up on the bills and a bite of food isn't to bad once in a while. As much as I would like to escape building race cars and working on Harley engines, I just can't seem to pull away from it. Although, when I'm out doing research, it takes me away from all of that. My true passion is the Ohio and Erie Canal and when I can bring it to the level of knowledge to match my other skills, I'll be darn good.
I can't understand what I done this time too spark this continual dislike for me. I 'm sorta surprised that we're still doing this negative stuff.
1621-hey!the guy is making an honest living doing what he knows best!!How many of you are making it these days and times being self employed?
1622-As Canaldog had mentioned in posting 1615 about the twin pillars made me think about another place that had them as well. On the short distance between Rocky Fork Lock 14 between the Rocky Fork Culvert there are twin pillars that were placed at the canals edge. Up the hill from there and about are the foundations of a home that once sat there. One the ground in front at the canal level sits a well off to the side. Perhaps good drinking water was pulled there for many purposes for the boats and the people who lived there. I have a couple of different versions of who occupied that space behind the pillars. Those pillars weren’t too far off from the lock chamber and may have been lit through the night for the lock tenders to see their way. A lock tenders house probably sat there at one time. An elderly gentleman from Toboso who was in his late 90s six years ago told us that he remembers playing back in there as a kid. An old road was still there that crossed over the culvert because the water was already gone and the towpath was a road. The towpath was one of the only roads around and when people stated getting cars they ran up and down the towpath. The small house sat inside those pillars and a bigger one was up on the hill above looking down. They always heard that the big house was haunted and they were terrified to look in. as the old mythical story would go an old woman lived there thought to be a witch and would cast down a spell if you trespassed. He also said that there is an old grave yard on those grounds too. He wouldn’t think that any markers stood the test of time because they were made of wood. He tends to believe the lock manager’s home was the small one below. He can still remember it as an outpost of some type even as a kid, they sold tobacco, chew and lots of whiskey. That building stayed there into the 40s and someone was shot and killed back in there, something to do with bootlegging. The canal already closed when he was born in 1898, he remembers a couple of canal boat that resting against the Licking Dam but vanished after the big flood. The Licking Dam was just down the hill from where he still lived when I interviewed him. The Licking Dam withstood the great flood. The flood waters were so high the water reached his front doors at his home. After the flood, Toboso was cut off from the north with all the bridges being washed away. The kids never had a problem getting across at first, we just climbed through the trees that were all bunched up he said. It wasn’t too long before they were driving their wagons through the river after the water went back down climbing up and down the river bank.
I wish to say that one many occasions that I taped the conversations with those I interviewed with their consent.
1623-That’s a great story and knowing our states history it’s near accurate on many key points. In town, we had many connecting roads, on the other hand to get to anyplace on the canal you simply took the towpath between stops. This created a deluge on the towpath because those pulling wagons had already forgotten the towpath was for the canal boats. This situation was ratified throughout Tuscarawas County and other counties alike by making moderate changes on the longer levels, a place where wide sections were needed the most. By constructing a place to pull aside basically calmed the exploding problem which too often got far out of hand where fist flew way too often. With them in place, a boat or wagon could pass without too much difficulty. The canal boat always had the right of way. Our first and foremost roads were the towpaths throughout the State. In today’s times, we forget that many our interstates and routes were first named either Canal Rd. or Towpath and more than likely a stage route.
1624-Hello everyone, I have a trivia question to be answered. Name a canal town which had in its confines had a rather high spanning aqueduct and a culvert?
1625 to 1623
Frazeysburg,Ohio once on the canal still yet has a stagecoach Rd.
1626-1624 -one of those towns were Newark! Although Newark had two aqueducts that were positioned and built high above the streams they crossed. They were the North Fork and Raccoon Creek Aqueducts, no culverts!
1627- Barberton had a slackwater crossing instead of having this aqueduct everyone believes sat on Wolf Creek!!
1628
Answer for 1624- Circleville
1629-to-1624 Hargus Creek Culvert along with the highest of all aqueducts are within the confines of Circleville. Posting 1628 is correct!
1630- There was never a slack water crossing in Barberton as a certain publication has it written. Barberton had an aqueduct and then a replacement aqueduct further down. Show proof that a slack water existed anyone if you can!
1631-- There was a time when manpower became a real problem and young boys and girls were hired as the crew. What time in history did the average canal boat have less than a skeleton crew made up of woman and children?
1632-The Civil deprived nearly everything which needed manpower. It might have been called The Boys' War.
Authorities differ, and statistics bristle in the controversy, but this is the offering of the Photographic History of the Civil War:
More than 2,000,000 Federal soldiers were twenty-one or under (of a total of some 2,700,000)-
More than 1,000,000 were eighteen or under.
About 800,000 were seventeen or under.
About 200,000 were sixteen or under.
About 100,000 were fifteen or under.
Three hundred were thirteen or under-most of these fifers or drummers, but regularly enrolled, and sometimes fighters.
Twenty-five were ten or under.
1633-to -1632. During the Civil War we all quite aware that our young men stood in line to defend what they thought was righteous enough to die for. That in itself played somewhat of a defining role which did lesson the available manpower all over the country. The canal felt a blow with its young men off to war. That left many old-timers, women and children to do the daily operations on board and tending the mules and very importantly being a Hoggie. That time during the canal era was plagued by another problem, its future! The canal was leased off, and the air was filled with uncertainties, the railroads were arriving from all directions thus clamping down the lid on the coffin where the Ohio and Erie canal would soon be laid too rest. When the flood of 1913 had passed, the smarter people in the state house didn't feel the urgency to rebuild the canal and was quite content with the existing methods of transportation. I imagine that some wanted the canal to survive and put up some-sort of fight in doing so. But one would think after an audit to see how much activity was going on, they save the tax-payers money by closing it. Today, the Ohio and Erie Canals towpath is used a thousand fold in comparison to the canal era.
1634- By all accounts and records alike prove the canals here at home have nearly ran their course on prosperity by the mid 1850s. No more did the Miami and Erie enter into service than talks to disband it had surfaced.
1635- At locks 38 and 39 at the Maumee was the entrance onto the river to the stillness of a slackwater, was that a crossing or was the river backed up for wharfs and dockage usage?
1636 to 1635-I'm going to rephrase the posting above. I believe Harv wants to know is if the Miami and Erie Canal crossed the Maumee at locks 38 & 39 through a slack-water, or was it dammed up so the boats could moor on its banks.
1637-Was King Watson royalty?
1638
To 1634- You need to bear in mind that the Miami & Erie canal on Ohio's western side was financed & built in 3 stages. The section from Cincinnati north to Dayton was watered and in service by the late 1820's. Its reveues were so large that it encouraged the state to issue bonds for the Miami extension & later, the tie in to Indiana/Ohio collaboration on the Wabash & Erie canal that terminated in Toledo. Its final completion in the mid-late 1840's did coincide with the railroads eventual domination of the freight and passenger business.
T0 1635 The canal crossed the Maumee at Lock 39N in Defiane via a slackwater. The river served ( on its northern bank) as a canal for roughly 4 miles until the manmade canal resumed at Lock 40N in Independence.
I don't know of any shipping docks lining the river in Defiance. I assume loading & unloading occured at the basins within the town. It had 4 locks & as many basins within its limits.
To 1637- Pretty sure that King Watson was a local landowner with an unusual first name.--W.A.Seed
1637-We visited lock 1 in Akron to have a look around today. Is any of what we locked at in line with the original canal lock of long ago?
1638--Lock 1 on the northern Portage Summit was blown completely up in 1913. During the flood the water was rising rapidly causing insurmountable destruction mainly to B.F.Goodrich and other low lying companies. To elevate its further damage to the immediate area, lock 1 was blown sky hi. Anything remaining now was built after the flood had dissipated.
1639
I would like to respond to 1638. Why the hell would the state rebuild lock 1 with gate recesses after the 1913 flood? They didn't because what is there is the 1906 concrete structure.---Akron Historian.
1639
I would like to respond to 1638. Why the hell would the state rebuild lock 1 with gate recesses after the 1913 flood? They didn't because what is there is the 1906 concrete structure.---Akron Historian.
1639 to 1638- Part 1“So!! A society member blew the lock!” I don't think so; whoever posted never meant that a member of our canal societies actually blew up the lock. Now that we got that straightened around, I partially disagree with his statement on the grounds that he's basically incorrect. Lock 1, was never blown to smithereens. During the flood, I believe that the locks were kept closed as procedure rather than standing open during the storm simply to save the canal from ruining its banks. Common sense would have told them too act sooner and open them. That's my opinion. But in their defense no-one knew how long the rains were to last and they surely were anticipating it too stop at anytime. On the second day, the Portage Lakes were busting at there seams, stemming from that began filling the canal on the Portage Summit. The water began rising and soon enough Barberton before Akron was waste deep in water being compromised by three flooding streams attacking it simultaneously, Wolf Creek , Hudson Run and the Tuscarawas were raging out of there banks and we must remember the canal was bringing plenty of water as well. Akron up higher in elevation was being compromised by the canal only, and down in the valley by smaller streams. Back at Barberton, Wolfs Creek at lock 1 was probably closed as well as protocol would have it. By the time that the Portage Lakes had busted there upper dams and drained into the lowest of them, Long Lake, the canal was taking on millions of gallons of unwanted water. Summit Lake had swollen and its water level was substantially higher and it was running overtop of the summits most northern and southern lock and down the staircase every canal lock mimicked the rushing water flowing overtop rather then through or around. Knowing that, we know the lock chambers were closed, a bad decision on someone’s behalf. It was standard procedure to protect the canal banks, in doing so; the water was slowed at the locks. If they would have been opened from the beginning of the storm, there would have been much less damage. So much water was coming into Akron; a decision was made to blow the head gates at Long Lake to keep the canal from continually filling, consideration for southern towns was thrown into the wind. They were blown, and the water that was backed in Summit Lake waiting to rush on Akron’s staircase was relieved some, but not enough. The water was causing a massive amount of damage on the levels between the staircase locks by washing factories down the canal. A decision was made to open the locks, but no-man would even consider getting too close for fear for his life The water was so strong the lock system looked like a long set of rapids, undistinguishable for their former state. The lock gates had to be opened somehow, and they were when dynamite was thrown onto the lock gates from above and blew them open, that also busted the clogged debris. Summit Lake also had drained because there wasn’t anything to hold back the water with lock 1 with its doors gone. The proof of all these explosions still can be found everywhere all the way down to the Mustill Store area, just look out in the canal and Little Cuyahoga River, busted blocks and debris is everywhere.. The hardest hit area was just beyond the store where a huge section of the towpath was washed away. Today the water coming down the canal now merges with the Little Cuyahoga in a place where the towpath used to be
. Part 2- To answer your question on lock1, just by looking at it, it looks the same from exchange St. as it did so the day it rebuilt in the early 20th century, except the massive doors are gone. None of that picture perfect lock you seen was blown up; the wings are still perfectly intact as the spillway is. What’s changed is the way the water is delivered into the canal. Now the water passes below a controlled dam which regulates Summit Lake and flood control on the Portage Summit. The lock chamber inside the building is still intact. On the rear of this lock we have a gear driven gate is there that can block off the water if needed. The basin is long gone. Up until the mid 1970s, the water spilled over the top acting as a weir at lock 1 as the picture shows well in Mr. Gieck’s publication, that picture was taken in 1951.
The Little Cuyahoga River had done its fair share of damage during that flood as well, killing an unknown amount of people living in the slums of lower Akron. In northern Ohio, the canal itself sustained more damage north of Akron then anywhere else, but it was the towns below, downstream to the south that took on more damage when the dam at the Portage Lakes at Manchester Rd was blown. From that act, entire neighborhoods were washed away and so much more destruction happened at Barberton, Clinton, Canal Fulton, Massillon and Canal Dover who got smashed, by comparison Akron had little. The waters raged into Roscoe and everywhere near a major river and on the canal.
After things settled down and it stopped raining, Massillon had its officials head to the lakes and found them empty with barely a trickle was flowing. Looking around it was evident what took place with huge chicks of concrete found scattered with black powder burns, obviously from an explosion. Akron denied this and a court battle erupted from it. Massillon was seeking damages, but Akron, more able to pay legal expenses held out and exhausted the finances of their southern neighbors and it was dropped.
1640-THAT VERSION OF THE FLOOD IS THE MOST ACCURATE SCENARIO THAT'S EVER BEEN TOLD YET! IT IS TRULY AN EXCEPTIONAL SCRIPT.....
1641- to the Akron Historian. There has been an enormous amount of work done on a couple sections on the northern staircase just after the flood. Why was this time, effort and expense aimed at a defunct canal?
1642 The water ran openly on its way down where it met the Little Cuyahoga River until about 1924. At that time, the sewage system was sinalized and partially placed into through and crossed the former canal and river below. A channel was made of concrete which directed the water and in part the walls stand today. Both the eastern and western sides are now fill where industry once operated.
1643 What wall
1644
Reply to 1641- Whatever maintenance done on the canal system after the 1913 flood would have been performed in order to honor water leases held by mill owners.-Akron Historian
1645 to 1644 That makes good sense and all, except some the work was performed in an area where industries where not siphoning water for commercial usage. This work was done on the staircase. Name a factory that wasn't wrecked, still operational on the staircase after the flood. There's none.
1646 to 1645
The state considered restoring the canal from Cleveland to Dresden after the flood for water rental purposes. Perhaps a republican was in charge at that time and felt it wise to pay off some favors to his campaign contributors?- Akron Historian
Cascade Locks member said...
1647 That pretty well sums up the previous listing with an excellent explanation, I'm not being sarcastic either... My question is.....Did the Ohio and Erie Canal pass through Wayne County at Clinton at mile 51? Another thing which dazzles me a bit is these new Canalway signs. The simply say "Americas Byway" who's the idiot that came up with that? If any canal system in this country deserves that title, it's not here at home in Ohio but New York's Grand Canal, State Barge Canal, Erie Canal. Someone is getting a bit carried away with the lackluster fame and fortune of the Ohio and Erie Canal that was short in life. The Ohio and Erie Canal and every other canal system in this great land except for the New York system either ended broke or went defunct. The railroads and our pioneer trails are certainly Americas' byways that this ignorant fool is making that claim.
October 10, 2010 12:31 PM
I'm a realist not some stupid canal zombie said...
1648 to 1647-“That's a pretty big undertaking to even consider the Ohio and Erie Canal as even one of our great national by-ways’ I can think of a couple transportation routes that do qualify and could hold that title. How about the Appellation Trail, Chism Trail, Pony Express, Oregon trail, Lewis & Clark who opened the west, Zane’s Trace, the Cumberland Road and the mighty Mississippi River, just to get warmed up on this topic. Who ever suggested that the Ohio and Erie Canal played this huge role throughout this land is delusional. Somehow, it all boils down to tax dollars. There is some making a good living off all of this. In these times of despair with so many out of work loosing their homes, do we really need to have millions pouring into these ignoramus projects?, one being the after life of a canal which barely made a difference to this state or even the nation in all actuality? Its short life span lasted 25 years, at most, then, the trains came along, and the canals were forgotten. Will the real American By-Way, please stand up!!!! The real American By-way is the B&O Railroad.
October 10, 2010 2:27 PM
Bleep Bleep earth to the canawlers Check one are you there? said...
1649- Check One, Bleep-Check One, Bleep,-Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Bleep---This is earth to the average canal enthusiast, hello, hello, are you there?? I thought Civil War Historians needed help~! They can be helped, not you guys. I have too stringently said also, that these new signs are quite a bit over the top. That is definitely stretching an inch into a yardstick. We know that a lot of people watch this site, would someone stand up and make the claim behind that impersonation to fame and admit they are responsible for this hallucination that the Ohio and Erie Canal actually was larger than itself. How about a name, so I can toilet papers his or her house?
October 10, 2010 2:50 PM
Stupid road signs- Canalwayman said...
1650-I was floored the day I come across the road sign at Bolivar claiming the Ohio and Erie Canal as being (Americas Byway). That statement is miles from being even partially accurate, more minuscule in truth than anything. Those signs are wrong and should be considered for removal. Maybe it would be a little more accurate to say this: The Ohio and Erie Canal, a vital connection which in part linked with other system played an important part making up Americas interior waterways, but like an ice cream stand we were closed for the winter. A national byway wouldn’t close half the year either. My question is this, when was it this so called national waterway our country’s main connection? It’s probably important too remember this, it was just over 300, miles long within a country that spans thousands of miles east to west and a thousand more north to south. I wish to go on record and say, everyone knows me as Canalwayman-Jeff Maximovich, I loudly say this, that is the most stupid sign ever erected here in Ohio, it totally untrue. DAH! The National Road was one of our countries foremost and prominent byways, how about Route 66. For those who are not aware of this, the Ohio and Erie Canal was by no-means this byway. It was very inconsistent, plagued with difficulties and never moved troops. This “Canal” was only partially in service when the 1913 flood finished it. Its length then was from Lock 42, to Dresden a distance just over 150 miles. The southern end had already closed. This might be important, in some of our southern Ohio counter part canal towns; they had already filling in the canal beds in many places, one of which was Chillicothe. Now, think logically about this next statement, you don’t even need to scratch your head coming to a conclusion here. Do you know that neither the Missouri nor the Great Mississippi River at 2.300 miles long don’t even make the claims that those signs about the Ohio and Erie Canal do? Man we’re talking about Mark Twain, Huckleberry Finn and three story famous river boats, St.Louis and New Orleans, all those things were all part of our great history. Some one needs to really research these stupid signs before the meet the press. They’re all over Ohio. This goes out too the idiot’s who approved it, you surely are naive to the real history and facts about our nation’s byways and even less educated about our canals here at home. A question, being as follows: this American Byway in all this greatness known throughout our land how would a person at Apache Junction board a canal boat to Sacramento? I totally agree with one of the previous posting that the B&O Railroad and its connections pulled this nation together with its byways. I love Ohio and Erie Canal, it’s my passion, but I can’t stand some of the asses who make these decisions.
October 11, 2010 4:26 AM
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1651-We were disappointed with the attraction value of the Ohio and Erie Canal. It wasn't worth the drive over. By no means , what’s left of your great canal be considered a tourist attraction. It’s very sparse and un-organized and the road signs are confusing. At Bolivar we expected to see a canal, judging by this bigger than life billboard covering half the road claiming ,Wow! Get off right here!!! Come see the spectacular Ohio and Erie Canal, get your tickets, Not at all. No parking lots, no cones, no one to park us, just endless arrows on endless roads which lead to no-where. Who-ever is in-charge, needs to be dismissed from their duties for false advertisement too say the least. But the storm cleared and we were impressed finally arriving at Canal Fulton. To those running the peanut gallery--you should do all of us a favor and just direct those who are interested in your canal straight into Canal Fulton. On a scale of 1 to 10, I’ll give the whole Ohio and Erie Canal attraction ordeal a strong 1. It really sucks!!!
1652-I also remain intrigued with the history of the Ohio & Erie Canal. But nowadays, we might be getting a little bit carried away with all the signs. I hate false advertisement and inaccuracies, for a good example, that sign at Bolivar and scattered all over northern Ohio we have pasted everywhere that say; “Americas Byway”, in accuracy points, that wording would be a low score. The canal was showing great signs of dismay by its 10th birthday. The father of this great “American Byway”, Alfred Kelley lowered his standards and climbed aboard the other “American Byway” and was the Chairman of at least 8, railways before he died in 1863. He never looked back. Huh, why?
1653 I'm a member of the Canal society of Ohio and every society as a whole. I agree that the Ohio and Erie Canal wasn't Americas Byway. By placing those signs and using its wording clearly indicated that the Ohio and Erie was solely Americas Byway. I stood against the phrasing and would have rather had it read; One of Americas Byways, or an American Byway, not how it reads. It is stupid and should be reworded. Some of our leaders are so removed from the reality of the canal and pursue this bigger than life image trying to make this water way more than it was at its hi-point. That’s all I have to say. Thank You. I read this site everyday.
1654- That sign is ridiculous and all the others posted to anything that'll hold them that want us to believe that the Ohio and Erie Canal was Americas Byway. Let get back to its beginnings, the whole purpose of the canal was to link the Great lakes with the Ohio River. It wasn't to connect the Ohio River to the canal.. The Ohio River served as the American Byway east to west along with the Missouri. The Mississippi, north to south. I tried to get a response today by making attempts to locate these idiots in charge. No luck, we'll call you back, they're out, and they’re busy right now. Is this what our tax dollars pay for, such bureaucracy and fools? Something needs done here; who ever is in charge is getting too carried away with this madness. Why should the taxpayer suffer at the hands of them who are clueless about our states history? I’m pissed off. Someone please give the name of who makes these dumb #@*&^ decisions so we can ask them why they placed these signs?
1655
The canal was not living up to its expectations and could no longer compete with technology, and for that reason alone is why the state leased them away.
The signs are pretty dumb out there!
1656 King Watson was a property owner, however he acquired that name will always remain a mystery. We know his property assembled around lock 1 on the southern end of the Licking Summit. Watson married Byron Pugh's daughter and with her inheritance combined owned property as far as the Katydid Bridge down the canal and everything bordering the Pugh's. The location of the Katydid Bridge was due south of lock1, and crossed over a dirt path now we know as Sr.79. The bridge had a strange design having a high center. It’s said by another researcher to me once that two boats could not pass below at the same time without an overhead collision. I really can't buy that story because if there was enough room on the towpath to operate a team of mules, it had plenty of room for clearance. The bridge was a common structure throughout southern Ohio more than up north. It shot up at from low abutments rising a good ten feet over the water and usually had a loading door built in to load boats.
Jeff do you hate the canal, sounds like it?!
1657- Do I hate the canal? Why of course not. But you just can't sit around and act as if things are OK when they're not so. You must be responding to all this agitation about those signs. I do think this topic has run its course and I hope so, its getting quite bothersome. Ask yourself this, was the Ohio and Erie Canal really Americas Byway by any means at all!!
1658
1657 After reviewing all of the above, I have to say it is not even close. How can we compare a man made water route to the Mighty Mississippi and its history. The Union Pacific Railroad was Americas real byway being the first to connect our country from all 4 corners. The B&O was the first and oldest railway in our nation. The B&O played an important and much larger part than the Ohio and Erie Canal which played a small part in our country's growth.
1659
You would think this great American Byway moved the mail during its reign. Judging by its advertisement nowadays as the only way to get anywhere in the United States, I would have bet it was laden heavily carrying the postage. (Doubt it) I fail to have ever observed any telephone polls along our towpath, now come to think of it. I'll bet the telegraph lines never accompanied any towpaths anywhere, can’t remember seeing any!. Was the Ohio & Erie much larger in life than the Telegraph system? The telegraph was absolutely a byway in its own right. I feel as if here in Ohio the whole ordeal surrounding rebuilding our towpaths and making repairs are getting some out there very rich. Are the same contractors being uses over and over and where are the bids posted? I do construction and have yet failed to see any of those jobs up for bid. It has too been corruption. Nowadays in the American way it’s done in the same manner as all big construction projects are decided upon by who offers the biggest kick back. Our tax dollars are being wasted, what does it really give back to any of us? During its so called reign, they used boats registering about eighty feet by fifteen to carry payloads. During this period we had river boats capable of carrying as many as four canal boats on their deck to prove a point, these were powered by engines capable of moving thousands of miles on end, but they weren’t pulled by some lazy mules crapping everywhere a method from the time of the Romans that’s why our major rivers didn’t qualify as Americas Byway.
1660
Isn't the "Americas Byway" designation simply a rebranding of the Scenic Byways program? If so, it is signage put up for driving sightseers and nothing more. Don't think it implys that the O&E canal corridor is anything more than a scenic stretch of road with some historic sights beside it.--W.A.Seed
1661
1660 You have it wrong! If that's how it is, then have them say Americas Byways-An American Byway sounds even better. The sign is far to singular to grasp what you're implying.
There must be something wrong with the wording that W.A.Seed fails to connect with. If I'de poll this question asking 100 diversified individuals if that sign implies that the Ohio and Erie Canal was thee one and only byway how do you think they would answer. Maybe what you are saying has a different meaning than what its wording relays to the general public. If so, why should people have to read into something to draw a conclusion from a simple sign, makes no sense.
1662
1660 In response,I have to say that whitewashing its wording isn't enough. The sign has been placed and the wording is bad. I'm gonna drive up from Circleville and repair this sign and this mess will all (Go Away). I'm simply going to ad the letter "S" to the end of BYWAY and it will read AMERICAS BYWAYS now doesn't that sound more appropriate. The sign pumps false life into a simple 300 mile long canalway that failed. The best wording would be Americas Byway System, then have an infoboard at Bolivar and these other places where this false advertisement sign stands. What if Canalwayman made that statement years ago? You guys would have tore him up.
1663
1660 The sign is done in poor wording. Let’s give an example so you may understand. First of which, we must understand the difference between “Plural and Singular.” Example; Saturn’s Moons, more than one! Earths Moon, one! Americas Byway, one! Americas Byways, more than one! An American Byway, more than one! That sign is (Singular) and pretty smug at that. The sign should be re-worded for the sake of accuracy. Something needs to be done; our other states which also had canals need to see this bit of arrogance coming from those making the decisions here at home. Keep this thought; my car has a spare tire that would one tire!!! Once again those who run the show are putting the cart –n- front-of- the –horse.
1664 I sit with the railroad boys. That's pretty lame, this sign thing. The Ohio Canal was Ohio's Byway, not the national Byway! Zane's Trace was the second and the other canals really don't account for much. What bearing would the Ohio and Erie Canal have on Colorado or any far away place, nothing at all? The only impact whatsoever would be contributed to the larger river routes that moved freight from it. All these stories about our presidents riding on the canal are all Bullshit and cannot be proven. Without a doubt, all the Presidents before they were flown had their own personal train cars from 1850 on, with a special designated train to pull them. Would someone stand up and tell us, the general public, which canal boat our Presidents lived aboard. I would imagine with it being the American and only byway they had several golden and glamorous boats to pick from. If this canal was Americas Byway, then why wasn't the Nations Capitol moved onto its towpath.
1665—Here’s where the problem lies pertaining these signs. First of which, they have been placed in scores of locations and they are totally incorrect on the information aspects. But they are very attractive. Then again so’s a good paint job over bondo. Those who are driving the bus and control these projects are far smarter than those who approve these expenditures. To break that down, I mean this, whoever they had too convince that the Ohio and Erie Canal was Americas Byway, they were naive to the fact its not. With the swipe of a pen and placing a signature cost we the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be used better somewhere else. If you are going to spend our money, please at least get it right. In the many paragraphs above and judging by the responses on this matter clearly is an indication that the sign represents something that it never was during its time. I’m a member of a couple select canal organizations; you couldn’t pay me to join the Canal Society of Ohio. It’s corrupt and carries out bad business dealing while the taxpayer get poorer the society gains plenty of capital too run with. We owe our thanks to that blundering Idiot Congressman Ralph Regula for sticking it to the taxpayer by buying into pouring millions into the CSO and let them disperse funds too whoever. The books should be open for review. He should have gotten a job at Dairy Mart long ago; he really was a poor representative. He may have funded the canal projects, but murdered the people of Ohio on other issues. He voted to outsource plenty of jobs and his stand maneuvered our labor force in part over the state lines. Sure he was good to secure the funds on the canal and towpath issues because money comes easy for a millionaire, . Look at his wages; was he worth it to Ohio? Hell No!! We could go on forever on that. Subject The signs are wrong and need to be corrected.
1666-to 1665. I certainly respect your opinion on the many subjects you covered. You're right on many of them. One that you're not correct on is that The Canal Society of Ohio receives any funds from government entities-Township, County, State, or Federal. It does not receive a dime of taxpayer money.--W.A.Seed
1667
1666 Where do you think the money comes from Dah!!! Do you think the wording should be changed. Before you answer, I went to the shopping center for opinions showing a picture of the (Byway) sign to one hundred people over two days who would look at it and asked their opinion. Everyone said it seems as if the sign indicates that the Ohio and Erie Canal was the only mode of transportation then.
1668 I'll go along with the signs being worded rather smug and incorrect. But! All these projects are keeping a labor force very busy. The signs should come down or have someone spray paint an S on Byway!!
1669 I agree, men are working and that's the real issue here.
1670 Yes its good that some have jobs connected to the towpath projects., But think about all the revenue its going to cost the taxpayer again to re-do those signs. I really lean towards the spray paint idea making an S on the end of the word Byway fix. Make it bright orange!!
1671--------------- I would like too point out the following has byways in (Plural) a strong point to remember these are roads not canals. The Ohio and Erie Canal was a water route only, only through Ohio!! The signs are wrong by all means. This scenario of bolstering the Ohio and Erie Canal beyond its capabilities needs some attention.
Scenic Road Trips - The vision of the Federal Highway Administration's National Scenic Byways Program To create a distinctive collection of American roads, their stories and treasured places.
The mission of America's Byways is to provide resources to the byway community in creating a unique travel experience and enhanced local quality of life through efforts to preserve, protect, interpret, and promote the intrinsic qualities of designated (byways).
The National Scenic Byways (NSB) Program was established under the Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991, and reauthorized in 1998 under the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century. It comes up for reauthorization in 2003.
Under the program, the U.S. Secretary of Transportation recognizes certain roads as National Scenic Byways or All-American Roads based on their archaeological, cultural, historic, natural, recreational, and scenic qualities. There are 96 such designated Byways in 39 states. The Federal Highway Administration promotes the collection as the America's (Byways™.)
This program is founded upon the strength of the leaders for individual Byways. It is a voluntary, grassroots program. It recognizes and supports outstanding roads. It provides resources to help manage the intrinsic qualities within the broader Byway corridor to be treasured and shared.
Part 1-----------------
All-American Roads
* Acadia Byway (ME - 2000)
* Alaska's Marine Highway (AK - 2005)
* Beartooth Highway (MT - 2002, WY - 2000)
* Blue Ridge Parkway (VA - 2005, NC - 1996)
* Chinook Scenic Byway (WA - 1998)
* Colonial Parkway (VA - 2005)
* Creole Nature Trail (LA - 2002)
* George Washington Memorial Parkway (VA - 2005)
* Hells Canyon Scenic Byway (OR - 2000)
* Historic Columbia River Highway (OR - 1998)
* Historic National Road (MD - 2002, WV - 2002, IN - 2002, PA - 2002, IL - 2002, OH - 2002)
* International Selkirk Loop (ID - 2005, WA - 2005)
* Lakes to Locks Passage (NY - 2002)
* Las Vegas Strip (NV - 2000)
* Natchez Trace Parkway (AL - 1996, MS - 1996, TN - 1996)
* North Shore Scenic Drive (MN - 2002)
* Northwest Passage Scenic Byway (ID - 2005)
* Pacific Coast Scenic Byway - Oregon (OR - 2002)
* Red Rock Scenic Byway (AZ - 2005)
* Route 1 - Big Sur Coast Highway (CA - 1996)
* Route 1 - San Luis Obispo North Coast Byway (CA - 2002)
* San Juan Skyway (CO - 1996)
* Scenic Byway 12 (UT - 2002)
* Selma to Montgomery March Byway (AL - 1996)
* Seward Highway (AK - 2000)
* Trail Ridge Road/Beaver Meadow Road (CO - 1996)
* Volcanic Legacy Scenic Byway (OR - 1998, CA - 2002)
Total number of All-American Roads = 27
National Scenic Byways
* A1A Scenic & Historic Coastal Byway (FL - 2002)
* Amish Country Byway (OH - 2002)
* Arroyo Seco Historic Parkway - Route 110 (CA - 2002)
* Ashley River Road (SC - 2000)
* Billy the Kid Trail (NM - 1998)
* Brandywine Valley Scenic Byway (DE - 2005)
* Cascade Lakes Scenic Byway (OR - 1998)
* Catoctin Mountain Scenic Byway (MD - 2005)
* Cherohala Skyway (TN - 1996, NC - 1998)
* Cherokee Foothills Scenic Highway (SC - 1998)
* Chesapeake Country Scenic Byway (MD - 2002)
* Coal Heritage Trail (WV - 1998)
* Colorado River Headwaters Byway (CO - 2005)
* Connecticut River Byway (NH - 2005, VT - 2005)
* Connecticut State Route 169 (CT - 1996)
* Copper Country Trail (MI - 2005)
* Coronado Trail Scenic Byway (AZ - 2005)
* Coulee Corridor Scenic Byway (WA - 2005)
* Country Music Highway (KY - 2002)
* Crowley's Ridge Parkway (MO - 2000, AR - 1998)
* Death Valley Scenic Byway (CA - 2002)
* Dinosaur Diamond Prehistoric Highway (UT - 2002, CO - 2002)
* Ebbetts Pass Scenic Byway (CA - 2005)
* Edge of the Wilderness (MN - 1996)
* El Camino Real (NM - 2005)
* The Energy Loop: Huntington/Eccles Canyons Scenic Byway (UT - 2000)
* Flaming Gorge-Uintas Scenic Byway (UT - 1998)
* Flint Hills Scenic Byway (KS - 2005)
* Frontier Pathways Scenic and Historic Byway (CO - 1998)
* Geronimo Trail Scenic Byway (NM - 2005)
* Glenn Highway (AK - 2002)
* Gold Belt Tour Scenic and Historic Byway (CO - 2000)
* Grand Mesa Scenic and Historic Byway (CO - 1996)
* Grand Rounds Scenic Byway (MN - 1998)
* Great River Road (AR - 2002, MN - 2000, IA - 2000, IL - 2000, WI - 2000, MS - 2005)
1672 The signs are done in poor taste!
1673 what i get from what i see here is that the other canals didn't account for much in our neighboring states or it would be plural not singular. re-do boys-get it right next time!!
1674 Hey I play along with this byway thing. Where does it start and end, how many miles are we talkin here, 3-4000, maybe 5000 miles, yea, I could see that being named that
1575 You idiot its exactly 100 ,mile's long start at Lake Erie ends at Dover or New Philly. It goes by the name the Corridor, but you already know that. This term of corridor is as false as the Americas Byway. The canal is only left partial and is busted up into sections. It barely filled. The towpath accompanying it, also is partial . Again, someone putting out bad information, plus again putting the cart in front of the horse, They do that often! Look up the word Corridor and you'll agree. One should be able to traverse a corridor and get there. If we're talking about a road or roads along side the former canal we might have this corridor. But, the canal is represented as a corridor which cannot be used anymore, Ah, maybe that name needs some work too.It should be named the "busted up and barely connected remains of the former Ohio and Erie Canal". Now, That's accurate.
1576 Aint no idiot! But them boys over at the CSO sure are. If this canal is only 100 miles long, then we have a really small America for it to be the Americas Byway. R dem boyz ober dair b smokn sumptn at da CSO. Man take a hit, good shittt yeeah, sure issss.
1677 The previous list is quite a bit off in its numbering. The Ohio and Erie Canal with its side cuts which do not include the P&O or the S&B was less than 350 miles in total length. That's a far cry from the 100 miles listed above. I do wish to point out that during its life cycle the canal never had a physical connection to its western counterparts. Any movement of a canal boat from the O&E with the M&E was conducted either by using the Ohio River or Lake Erie. The canal boat was a prisoner of its own surroundings. The canal was good for Ohio; it brought prosperity to an ailing economy state wide. Our biggest product was mainly coal on the overall and was continually northern bound for Cleveland. Often enough the boats returned empty as records will indicate. The price of wheat did sore, but only temporarily then the market was flooded in New York driving it back. The canal was a big deal here at home and stemming from its arrival, Ohio became an industrial leader throughout the world. Our canal as much as we want to think it was the premier canal of all and any, it was better suited to service Ohioans than the nation. The signs are a bit presumptuous to make a claim of that magnitude. Canalwayman, I’m a bit surprised at you for allowing this to continue so long about the mismanaged sign ordeal.
1678
To all thee above. I am a solid member of quite a few diversified organizations. Two of these are related to all of this bologna. You must remember that over in Dayton, Ohio they have their issues too, a power struggle lives on. There is a situation over there that reminds me of the two flees arguing over who owns the dog. What we have here is, is there are some in Dayton and at home who live-eat and sleep these canal projects to a point where it’s disturbing. For them, thing aren’t happening as fast as they would like them to be, nervously they sit and chew their nails back to the knuckles looking for angles to promote the former canal. They do have people let’s say in their pockets that they can turn to and it helps pushing things along. I would look in there direction for a new car too. There is a lot of discontent in our higher ranks, but the noisy bearing gets the grease, getting their ways often to be politically correct. The decision to use that particular wording was met with plenty of opposition. It’s far to singular and self indulgent for many members who stood against it. The signs should come down. We have many members in our neighboring states who are just as upset knowing the officials here at home took it upon themselves to rename the Ohio and Erie Canal as Americas Byway. (Singular)
I think we all know by now those signs at the least should be reworded. For some guys who jump down your throat for accuracy, I’m a little surprised that wasn't caught sooner. Maybe they stood against it, who knows. I do wish to point out that some of these captions written here over the last couple of days should be held at less than face value. I have only a small idea who these people are. Bear in mind this, most people thrive on negatism. I don't believe some of the stories surrounding certain organizations, because I have friends their who are upstanding. Let’s face it, the signs are all wrong. This entire section will soon be lifted from this site. I do not believe the previous posting. I know this site evolves around being anonymous so under that rule if you make such a harsh statement put a real name with it. I ask people to not buy into those stories when it comes down to the persecution of another or organization. I hope that I'm not guilty of that. I strongly feel the signs are self indulgent and done out of good taste and I plan on doing something about them to get them changed. I don't mind placing my intentions out there or putting a name with them. Some of you who frequent this site get carried away because you are cowards!!. Excuse my poor wording, I worked 14 hours today and I'm going to bed dirty, Good Night.....How about no-more on this subject tonight, if I see it , it will evaporate.
Hi there,
This is a message for the webmaster/admin here at johnnyappleseedscanalstories.blogspot.com.
May I use some of the information from your post right above if I give a link back to your website?
Thanks,
Peter
Hey Peter, I don't mind you using anything from here under a couple of conditions which have to be met first. You must either text or call me personally. What's your web address so I can look it over from here to there. If you a making a publication using matter from this site I frown against it.330-413-3696 Call or text first or I forbid your using anything.
1679
1678 Those are some pretty strong allegations and if these are fact, then standing by allowing it to go on makes you as guilty. The CSO was established to preserve the rich past of the canal systems of Ohio. Mr. Finley would be proud to know his brainchild has expanded beyond the borders of his farthest dreams. Posting 1678 may hold some key points, not many. But is aimed towards total dislike of the CSO as a whole. Hearsay may play a role that fuels bitterness on his or her behalf. There is not a single company, organization and group that aren’t coupled by dislike by a handful of members. I say, remove you and get out while you can, get on with life. I attend a Baptist Church and praising the Lord is our objective, we have a few who are always complicating the simple things causing dismay, All we can do is pray the Lord will provide an answer and help them. Whether or not whoever listed 1678, is genuine, or masking, you need to look into your soul and do what’s right. If you are legitimate than go public, “Or behave yourself”. On the sign issue, I strongly feel that they were placed with good intentions, the wording needs adjusted. In the several posting prior, you have many really good recommendations for the character of this sign.
1689
To 1677 Coal and coke were the big ticket items. Before the coal business expanded mainly with Cleveland's Mills picking up the pace it was flour and wheat which moved along our canals. Wheat was plentiful and worked well with Ohio's climate. The wheat industry was plagued by greedy brokerages and a constant war between them caused disruption. A typical example lies in Navarre during the canal days when James Duncan declared war on his rival villages of Bethlehem and Rochester. All of these had huge granaries and was outbidding the other for storage fees. They kept dropping the bottom out to look more attractive until they were on the brink of bankruptcy. James Duncan, already had made his fortune could withstand quite easily storing the grain for a single penny per bushel. This same type of ordeal was being copy-catted on the Cleveland docks with numerous brokerage houses to choose from, they were at war too. The price was so low on the storage and hauling it was reasonable, about 8 cents per bushel at its highest point, a farmer could afford it A serious problem eventually rose from this storage situation that carried deathly and unforeseen consequences. The granaries were full to capacity spilling over and then came the rats and mice and every sort of bug to feed there. The rat droppings and urine mixed with the wheat had serious affects on people’s health. A black mold set in and people were getting sick from it too. The water and moisture was unable to escape creating rotting wheat. Abroad, New Yorkers and those all the way down the Mississippi and along the Gulf Coast who bought our flour were experiencing sickness as well and began to boycott Ohio Wheat and Flour. There was a time you couldn’t give it way. The brokers too often bought the product and drove the price to its very bottom, they made out and the poor farmer barely made ends meet. The brokerages always said they had too much and we’ll pass right now unless you’ll take a huge cut it cost and kept the buying cost at a minimum. When the sickness broke out from this bad flour and wheat many farmers lost everything because everything they had sat in the silos, no one wanted to buy it. To fix this sickness the product was burned to prevent anymore illness, but the damage was done and sales were slow. The good and the bad wheat went up in flames together. When the wheat was being loaded from the overhead chutes into the boats there was a rat catcher screen which would catch them. I guess that was a gruesome site seeing the rats scurrying in our food supply running back into the holdings. This situation became so un-controllable with the rats and mice that a different type of silo was invented above ground with rat guards on the legs resemble ling drummer’s symbols. They still managed to get inside and live in the wheat. The best defense against this pesky creature was to raise cats and plenty of them. The cats were as big as dogs because they were eating well and that was the best rat and rodent defense known then. This story was passed down to me back in 2006 from a gentleman who his great Grand father McBride who farmed in Botzum Ohio had told it and it then they passed down over the years. Now you guys get to hear it as it was told.
Foot Note---Most of our statewide flour enterprises which ground and packaged their own product form corn and wheat were a success because they took steps to ward off these problems. Miss Ohio Flour was known all over the world which was first ground at Lock 47 on the southern slope of the Licking Summit and it then moved in Chillicothe and ran until 1979..
1680 To the previous one that the perfect man himself canalwayman has numbered wrong. Jee, were not going to come burn you out the way you're trying to discredit those signs bye the way read just fine. You're the idiot, how in the hell did Miss Ohio Flour get around the globe if the Ohio and Erie Canal wasn't delivering?? ASS-HOLE
1690 Regarding entry 1689. My research has led me to conclude that the western ohio canal system shipped far more agricultural products than the Ohio and Erie canal. They consisted mostly of wheat,corn, and pork. Much to my dismay, I found no reports of excessive rodent infestation in the stored goods similar to those reported at the eastern canal
warehouses.
Akron historian
1681 to 1680 It's "GEE" you dork! Look up the definition of BY-Way in the Webster Dictionary. It has only, a singular explanation, (a road) don't say anything about water. if you read my caption well, it never said anywhere that the canal wasn't moving the wheat or its by-product, flour. What I did go on record saying was that Miss Ohio Flour was known all over the globe, and that's no secret. This product made its way to the European Continent. How do you think it arrived over there. The mill where wheat was originally being ground at went by two names, Flowers and Howard's Mill. They were well known in the canal era for the very best Buckwheat. According to the Public Board of Works 1859, it was operated by the Howard's family who also established a Baptist Church that exist today. The area is also called Howard. Lets take you to school while I have your attention. I wish to point out that it was well known as the 18 mile lock Why? because it was that many miles from the Ohio River. When the water quit flowing steadily in the canal in or about the late 1870s the mill was sold and mechanized to a degree to the Flowers family. The milling business on the canal ceased when the southern end was folding up south of Circleville in or around 1880. The mill sat dorment for several years because the trade was being done better and swifter in the bigger cities, steam or electric propulsion. In or about 1908 the mill was dismantled and piece by piece was taken by wagon to Chillicothe. The mill was set up at the Old Union Shoe Factory at Vine and West Water St. Once there, its goods were moved by road and mainly by rail to our nations docks at all four corners. That's how the Miss Ohio Flour found its way around the world. Are you stupid enough to think otherwise. Just for the record, I talked with one of our states representatives today about the signs that are placed incorrectly. Without hesitation he said, they are worded poorly and leads to have us believe the canal was Americas Byway and should be looked into. If we are going to spend our states and federal money on these projects, they need to get it done right. We haven't heard the end to this yet.
I wish to address the Akron Historian and bring up a well documented scenario of rat infestation at its highest levels. I have a hard time even believing you being a historian could have ever had suggested that never happened at the silos and granaries. I'll just sit back and wait here a while so you can recant that statement altogether. If you're from Akron, you must have had a brain stall. Think about your statement and remember that what I posted was a story only. But its situations are very viable.
1682 Man that Historian is pretty left out on Akron's History. I live here and everyone I know has heard the stories about the huge rats at Quaker Oats.
1683-- Man don't you know that the rats were the sole cause which spread the plague over in Europe? What! Do we have clean rats over here in Ohio that don't eat grain and get into things and are not filthy. Huh!!! Historian, I have to think about that.
1684 Ohio rats have manners, they are proper and sit at the table and wash their claws first and use napkins. Oh, yea, they only eat cheese!
1685= I'll bet if a rat took a piss on the Akron Historians sandwich he would be deathly sick!
1686- Our rats can read and are very obedient. They would love too run over and start chomping away at that pile of wheat, butttt the signs says "You Dirty Rats" stay out so they listen.
1687-Canalwayman you are the cockiest and most arrogant asshole alive. Who put you in the drivers seat about our Ohio and Erie Canal's history. I think, you think all this is funny, a good pass-time HUH, is it?
1688-I don't know where or how you ever come to that conclusion about me. Give me an example, so I may correct this problem. If I am arrogant, it’s because I do know my canal business and stand up for myself? If I am arrogant, it’s because I have to gumption to stand up to you guys? The last time I looked in the mirror, I seen a man, a man who's not afraid to speak out when I find it necessary to do so. I do admire the fact that I was never given the credit for being the first to discover certain things and never acquired its credits while you guys, and you know who I’m referring too, used some of my work calling it your own. That makes me real happy!
Thanks for sharing the link, but unfortunately it seems to be down... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please answer to my post if you do!
I would appreciate if a staff member here at johnnyappleseedscanalstories.blogspot.com could repost it.
Thanks,
Jules
1689 Don't ever think Jeff, Canalwayman isn't on his game. He's probably the foremost knowledgable voice about the Ohio and Erie Canal. If he has an attitude, well its for good reason. I respect him and his work. Jeff is working hard on another publication and he's not afraid to point out his prior mistakes. I bet he can go toe to toe with your best!
1690--Your boys over there at the CSO or whoever names these things, darn it get it right, it's confusing. Which is it? the Corridor, Scenic Byway or Americas Byway. Well now, it can't be the American Byway because that's just plain ignorant to pass that off on us. So which of the other two is it? People should contact their state representatives about the mis-usage of federal money making those signs out to be just a big plain lie.
1691- Quaker was plagued with rats. All of Akron's cereal companies were fighting a rodent problem which was out of control. Akron, once the world leader in the cereal industry picked up and moved because the situation was out of hand. When the Silos were renovated into the Hilton the workers had to have the enormous number of rodents exterminated before going into the basement areas. Like the scene from the Pied Piper the rats scurried in every direction. Inside Quaker provisions were implemented to try keeping rats from getting into machinery and blocking air channels, most important out of the food. While Quaker was in operation, millions of rats cohabitated with the employees walking back and forth overhead and on the floors. The working conditions if still operational would be cause for alarm and they would be shut down for sanitary condition violations. These industries never went public with these issues if so would cost them revenue dollars. This was kept hush-hush but the men working there and other cereal companies never ate the stuff from Akron told the stories. I have no reason to discredit the earlier story about the rats in the wheat, it's logical. Rats bring sickness! I’ve always thought that the great fires which swept the cereal companies in Akron were intended to burn off the rats. The insurance would pay and they could start over.
1692--Rats were a big problem on board our canal boats. When being loaded with grain, the wheat fell down a chute then filtered through a wooden screen as an attempt at keeping them out. Cats were a part of the everyday life on board these boats and they weren't fed, they had to fetch their dinners.
The Ohio and Erie Canal was once upon a time Ohio's Byway!! never Americas Byway!!!
1693-- I was always under the impression that the entire Oho Canal stayed open until the storm closed her down, True or Not?
1694- The canal began dying when she was leased away because of poor management, but was already compromised as our leading mode of transportation. On or about 1860, the state of Ohio felt as if its canal’s weren’t lucrative enough to keep a maintenance program active. When the canals lease was handed over to its new management team called the group of six its end was in sight. For about 16 years after it was leased the canal never has gotten much attention. Most repairs were being made by the boatman who tried to stick it out on our canalways, trying to scratch out a life. When the Ohio and Erie was delivered into the hands of these individuals it had about 28 years of service under its belt and the signs of its demise was already up and running. This mew method of transportation was quicker and more efficient, the railroads of America. The canal’s fate was decided directly after the storm of 1913. Although the northern section remained in operational up too 1913, the lower end began closing up in about 1880 and officially closes in 1907. The northern end officially closed in 1929; 16 years after the flood finished it off.
The State new good and well they no longer had interest in the canals and deceived the group of men who leased the Canalway too. , Basically they bought into a bad dealing without the knowledge that the state had put all their efforts into the rail system knowing inevitably the canal hadn’t a chance too survive. Shortly into the lease those who leased the systems could see the canal coming to its close just a year into it. When the receipts come back for audit they told the entire story with a serious loss of revenue. To stay afloat, they turned their attention towards selling the hydraulic power to operate factories and mills. The biggest water users were factories at our larger towns. To cover cost and make ends meet for the six entrepreneurs, the cost of hydraulic power was constantly escalating and become so un-affordable for the buyer they were seeking alternative methods. With the cost of water on the rise and the canal barely on the move was enough reason for many companies to close their doors forever or move off the canal and restart inland with steam or electric engines. The lessees broke up and scattered from here to there and left the canal without any supervision. Anyone still running boats on the canal had to fix and patch to navigate it. A cry was heard to the state to takeover the disbanded canal and reluctantly done so. The state re-aquired the canal in about 1877 after the lessees abandoned their obligations years ago. Ohio’s state house wanted to put down the canal and close her forever. Surprisingly there was too much opposition; there were some who felt the canals could be widened and used for better purposes than to disband it. I t would be almost thirty years before the state decide to rebuild its Ohio and Erie Canal, but only its northern end from Cleveland to Dresden Junction. The southern end was in such a bad state of deterioration it basically ceased to operated further more and boats were laying all over the canal bed unable to get moving again. The Circleville Dam had once again breached from a previous storm which cause the canal bed to be dry. The Tomlinson Dam has been breached for years by that point. The storm of 1860 newly finished the southern end and the repairs weren’t worth much during the lease time era... There wasn’t enough revenue to move forward with canal repairs and the lessees hadn’t the capital. Lock 13 on the Lockville Staircase was rebuilt out of necessity during the lease time because the boats couldn’t move coming from the Licking Reservoir through the deep cut because the canal was dry. The canal was dry because the canal water flowed freely at Lock 13 Rowe-Row and was unable to back up the system.
1695-On December 11, 1816, Governor DeWitt Clinton of New York sent a letter to the Ohio Legislature indicating his state's willingness to construct the Erie Canal without national help, and asking the State of Ohio to join in the endeavor. On January 9, 1817, the Ohio Legislature directed Ohio's Governor to negotiate a deal with Clinton. Due to the cost, however, the Ohio Legislature dallied, and nothing happened for the next 3 years. Finally, in January 1822, in a fit of progressivism, the Ohio Legislature passed acts to fund the canal system and the state's public education obligations.
1696-Its probably important to know but the canal was leased for several more years than you think!
The canals enjoyed a golden period of prosperity from the 1830's to the early 1860's. Immediately following the Civil War, it became apparent that railroads would take the canal's business.
Graph showing the annual expenditures and revenues accrued to the State of Ohio by the Ohio and Erie Canal.
From 1861 until 1879, Ohio leased its canals to private owners who earned revenue from dwindling boat operation and the sale of water to factories and towns. When the state took the canals back in 1879, it discovered that they had not been maintained, and that state lands surrounding the canals had been illegally sold to private owners. In many cases, canals were filled in for "health reasons", only to find a newly laid railroad track on their right of way. Much State land was given away for free to politcally savvy private owners. Nevertheless, some revenue was accrued into the early twentieth century from the sale of water rights as well as recovery and sale of land surrounding the canals.
1697-what name did the great generators go by which powered the traction companies enabling the trains to run?
1698 to 1607 They went by the name Dynamo's
1699
1548-Where a channel went around the guard lock has different circumstances in this case. The mill house was there before the Ohio and Erie Canal. The water entered a millrace the powered the mill and returned back into the Tuscarawas River. So happens the course of the canal crossed paths with the returning millrace and it was easier to connect the two. The millrace head waters at the river had a shut off valve with a secondary safety measure. If the river was too high, the water passed over a weir back into the river downstream. So the guard lock was never designed to carry a stream around.
1700
Listing 404 covers a low water situation. During times like these were special considerations at the locks put into action that kept more readily available water?
1701 to 1700. I often wondered how the canal systems could possibly operate when the streams were low. I've been in every stream that's a designated water supply for the Ohio and Erie Canal in our driest months. Just last week, I was walking through Stillwater Creek and walked through the Muskingum - Tuscarawas at New Philadelphia. The water was very shallow in the area of the Trenton State Dam and I crossed about 50 feet below the dam. Even with the water levels low, that dam at Trenton was holding back two feet of water. So I imagine that even when the stream is barely running there is enough water backed up behind the feeder dams to supply a sufficient amount of water into the canal channel. I would have to think in cases where the rivers run slow. Perhaps the Scioto for example would cease to run so the canal could operate. That was probably an expectable sacrifice. I've been in the Scioto River in August and there wasn't enough water to float my shoe. It was really wide and the water was an inch deep. That takes me to another area of history that's been told to me and others that many farmers floated the Scioto taking goods to market. The Scioto runs deeper and stronger after the winter thaw through early June and dwindles down to a trickle. But a couple days of steady rain makes that docile river into a monster. I have a hard time visualizing the Scioto being very reliable at harvest time here in Ohio. That time of year leaves the river low. I would be more inclined to believe that Higby and the other farmers done better by moving their goods to Portsmouth at the Ohio River by wagon rather than to be prying their flat bottom boats of the sandbars every fifty feet. We know today what the confluence of the Scioto and the Ohio Rivers looks like, it’s so loose you can barely stand up in it. I can't imagine a boat crossing that section of river late in the year at harvest time loaded heavily.
Have you considered the fact that this might work another way? I am wondering if anyone else has come across something
exactly the same in the past? Let me know your thoughts...
Could you be more definite and explicit on what ever it is you're referring too.
The state is well aware that the signs are worded questionably. My state representative says right now is bad timing with important issues at hand. He'll look into this matter further after the elections. I pinned him down enough to have him say that there wasn't enough thought process going into its true meaning, whatever that means!
1702 to 1253 Morning Star. Last Sunday we set out looking for this mystical place. There was only one single place where the lights of New Philly and Gnadenhutten were seen at night. After staying the evening we are satisfied this place does exist. I wish to say that we bought you book and have used it over and over to reference lock positions and its directions are kind and non-confusing. The signs which lead the general public to believe the Ohio and Erie Canal was bigger than itself as this great inner continental water way should be removed.
Thanks for sharing the link, but unfortunately it seems to be offline... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please reply to my message if you do!
I would appreciate if someone here at johnnyappleseedscanalstories.blogspot.com could repost it.
Thanks,
William
1703-1276 I can and cannot see the similarities between the two. The Cuyahoga was never a designated slack water or travel route for the O&E. The Licking River was a slack water. Where else are the two really share the same characteristics?
1704- Here's something which never been touched on. When the canal was in its last days just before the storm hit on Easter 1913 was there any boats operating?
1705 What's the deepest lock in North America?
I think the St.Lawrence Seaway had a better chance as Americas Byway Than the O&E Canal
1706 to 1703-There similarities, both river both the Cuyahoga and the Licking supplied water for the canal system. The way the water was delivered had no similarities except it for its job intended. The feeder gates at the Pinery Feeder were sluice gates and a channel was cut so the water could reach the canal. The Licking Feeder at Toboso hadn't a channel cut to reach the canal; it was the canal directly off the river at both ends. The Licking River was the canal for a couple of miles and the boats were tugged along the northern rim where a platform was built at Black Hand Rock at the very narrowest section through the gorge. The Cuyahoga River was used twice as a slack water area both at Cleveland. The river was navigated to enter both the western and eastern banks of the Flats. It was also used from lock 42 up and back from the Flats when lock 44 and 43 disappeared.
1707
1706 A canal was cut from the Licking River at Lock sixteen in Toboso and up river at the outlet.
1704 - 1704 by the time the storm hit the Midwest there was no canal boats in service. The events began on Thursday, March 20, and Good Friday, March 21. The rain really began on March 23, Easter Sunday. March 24th and 25 revealed the devastation in its wake. There weren't any new canal boat built since the late 1860s. Another 10 years disclose that all the dry docks began closing. By the 1870 all of the original boats have lived out their usefulness and were sunken or left rotting pulled off to a side channel. By the 1850s the boat building trade was slumbering off brought on with the excitement centered on the trains. About 1909 the canal boat graveyard at Akron's lower basin was set ablaze and soon the basin then purchased by B.F.Goodrich and was filled and a factory was up inside a year. Can't find were any canal boats were operating in 1913. If someone has conflicting information please post it.
1705-1704 cannot find any evidence of canal boats operating at the time of the storm. Further research doesn't disclose any manufacturing companies operating then who relied on the canal for moving product. The average canal boat would be 90 years old in 1913.
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